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Some years ago I had the time to waste so let a door knocker entertain me for awhile.
We ended up sparring in a friendly enough manner until I presented her with a question that I said, if she could answer, I would listen to her furthur.
Knowing that pain and suffering of man is excused with several reasons, I asked why God would allow/cause some innocent animal , unknown to and unseen by humans, to have, for instance, a tree fall on it,not kill it right away and lay, perhaps for minutes,hours or even days, in agony.
After several visits and after using up and casting off 'original sin' and 'sins of the father',she was stymied so passed it off to another fellow she declared better versed.
(I was finally given an explanation I have to admit couldn't factually counter. ...it was a stretch but not arguable)
Can any of you believers give even the thinnest palatable reason for this?
Last edited by old_cold; 08-05-2010 at 07:12 AM..
Reason: needed to be more precise
Some years ago I had the time to waste so let a door knocker entertain me for awhile.
We ended up sparring in a friendly enough manner until I presented her with a question that I said, if she could answer, I would listen to her furthur.
Knowing that pain and suffering of man is excused with several reasons, I asked why God would allow/cause some innocent animal , unknown to and unseen by humans, to have, for instance, a tree fall on it,not kill it right away and lay, perhaps for minutes,hours or even days, in agony.
After several visits and after using up and casting off 'original sin' and 'sins of the father',she was stymied so passed it off to another fellow she declared better versed.
(I was finally given an explanation I have to admit couldn't factually counter. ...it was a stretch but not arguable)
Can any of you believers give even the thinnest reason for this?
Being an ex-believer myself...I can tell you the only reason (which is more BS) they will give is that Gods ways are higher than our ways and we cannot possibly understand the grand plan of it all. There is NO PLAUSIBLE OR POSSIBLE REASON for this kind of thing to occur whether it be an animal or a human...and trying to justify it by an alleged all knowing/all seeing/all loving God makes him look not only particularly sadistic but truly evil.
Being an ex-believer myself...I can tell you the only reason (which is more BS) they will give is that Gods ways are higher than our ways and we cannot possibly understand the grand plan of it all. There is NO PLAUSIBLE OR POSSIBLE REASON for this kind of thing to occur whether it be an animal or a human...and trying to justify it by an alleged all knowing/all seeing/all loving God makes him look not only particularly sadistic but truly evil.
Your response made me realize the question to you all was not precise enough.
I have edited it.
Some years ago I had the time to waste so let a door knocker entertain me for awhile.
We ended up sparring in a friendly enough manner until I presented her with a question that I said, if she could answer, I would listen to her furthur.
Knowing that pain and suffering of man is excused with several reasons, I asked why God would allow/cause some innocent animal , unknown to and unseen by humans, to have, for instance, a tree fall on it,not kill it right away and lay, perhaps for minutes,hours or even days, in agony.
After several visits and after using up and casting off 'original sin' and 'sins of the father',she was stymied so passed it off to another fellow she declared better versed.
(I was finally given an explanation I have to admit couldn't factually counter. ...it was a stretch but not arguable)
Can any of you believers give even the thinnest palatable reason for this?
OK, I'll play. As per the bible, all things on the earth are put here by god for the use of man, right? That makes them essentially tools and resources, not Disney style little human emotion feeling fuzzy critters with human personalities.
Since they are mere tools and don't contain spirits like people supposedly do, their pain, suffering and death is irrelevant and basically non-existant. It would be as silly as assuming a rock felt pain as it rolled off a cliff and into a ravine, or a tree felt pain for being cut down and made into part of a church.
Therefore, god could not be considered cruel or indifferent for letting it happen.
Nor could it be considered wasteful or unnecessary, because the the death of the animal would serve to put nutrients in the ground that would eventually feed the trees of the forest, which could then be cut down for human use.
Not my personal philosophy, but how can you refute a resource (as defined by the bible) experiences human suffering if it is being used (even indirectly) by humankind, as per the origional intent of it's creation?
I'd say that the only answer would be 'God knows what He is doing.'
It would be easy enough to say that God only intervenes at times and sometimes he lets bad poo happen if it isn't part of His plan, but I can see that the benefits of that way out might be outweighed by the demerits. I should be fascinated to know what the explanation was.
Since mostly we only get evasive answers to most questions, guess I shouldn't be disappointed that there haven't been any from the apologists to this one
I said it was a stretch but at least it was imaginative.
Since man wasn't there to suffer from having to witness, maybe God has it arranged so that the animal doesn't feel pain or suffer.
You have to admit, I can't prove that one otherwise.
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