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The issue is, "poorly designed (read: poorly EVOLVED) humans"...with a slam on God for the "Ugh...mind-boggling shoddy/horrible design work"...and citing our need to eliminate waste from our bodies, and female menstruation (with the obligatory "ick factor" mention) as indicative of said "poor design".
I responded, basically, "If you don't like it, and you are going to assume the posture to criticize it, let's see YOU make something better."...FROM SCRATCH (like you are implying God did)...not improve on the, IMO, "wonderfully made" human anatomy. OH...and fix that "aging thing" too!
MOF...while you're at it--Fix the weather, those solar flareups, earthquakes, volcanos, lack of oxygen outside this planets' atmosphere, and anything/everything else God set the design of that you don't think "suits" us "Earth Humans" just so.
Why does your 'perfect designer' need your defense? If your god was so perfect, his design wouldn't need, nor have the capacity for, improvement. The design would be 'perfect'. Unfortunately, we didn't have a perfect engineer on the job during human development.
Oh, and there you go again... compare our average expected life span to that of ancient civilizations. Seems we're gaining an edge on aging too.
As for the slam on your god's design skills, I believe it's 'tongue in cheek' to make a point.
I'm glad you conceded to human evolution above. I encourage you to broaden your perspective a bit. The point is that the 'poor design' is a reflection of evolution rather than 'perfect design' (in god's image). I'd challenge you to identify a respected proponent of evolutionary theory who portrays evolution as some sort of perfect engineer.
Orestes, care to specify the imperfect design of human development? And with regards to seasonale, it may work but not after a looooooooong list of side effects and even death. Do you forgot that? Maybe coz these drug commercials always talk fast when they 'mention' the side effects.
The "poor design" is largely a result of the physiological relics left behind by evolution (sorry, I'm trying to recall a word which describes them better, but I can't come up with it). In any case, they show that it isn't a 'design' at all.
The drug companies talk fast when they mention side effects because there are so many of them.
Why does your 'perfect designer' need your defense? If your god was so perfect, his design wouldn't need, nor have the capacity for, improvement. The design would be 'perfect'. Unfortunately, we didn't have a perfect engineer on the job during human development.
Oh, and there you go again... compare our average expected life span to that of ancient civilizations. Seems we're gaining an edge on aging too.
As for the slam on your god's design skills, I believe it's 'tongue in cheek' to make a point.
I'm glad you conceded to human evolution above. I encourage you to broaden your perspective a bit. The point is that the 'poor design' is a reflection of evolution rather than 'perfect design' (in god's image). I'd challenge you to identify a respected proponent of evolutionary theory who portrays evolution as some sort of perfect engineer.
And my comments were "tongue in cheek" as well...to illustrate what I thought of the "God Slam" put forth by the OP.
Gods design plan needs no "defense".
I didn't "concede" to evolution...it's obvious. God put forth a really cool set-up, huh?...works great IMO!
You error by trying to define "perfect" with your limited human understanding and comprehension. And by what authority do YOU, or anyone else, determine what "perfection" is? "Perfection" relative to what?...the OPINION of Orestes?! On what basis is YOUR opinion of what is "perfect" an objective fact? And if it's not...how can your statement, "Unfortunately, we didn't have a perfect engineer on the job during human development", have merit?
Orestes, care to specify the imperfect design of human development?
Have you ever heard of appendicitis? Prior to the appendectomy, how many people do you think died horribly painful deaths from appendicitis? The appendix is a useless artifact.
Actually appendix functions as either a lymph or endocrine gland. It is widely believed to be a useless part of intestine but research is I believe still undergoing about its real function lemme google to refresh my memory.
Immune function
New studies propose that the appendix may harbor and protect bacteria that are beneficial in the function of the human colon. Loren G. Martin, a professor of physiology at Oklahoma State University, argues that the appendix has a function in fetuses and adults. Endocrine cells have been found in the appendix of 11-week-old fetuses that contribute to "biological control (homeostatic) mechanisms." In adults, Martin argues that the appendix acts as a lymphatic organ. The appendix is experimentally verified as being rich in infection-fighting lymphoid cells, suggesting that it might play a role in the immune system. Zahid suggests that it plays a role in both manufacturing hormones in fetal development as well as functioning to "train" the immune system, exposing the body to antigens so that it can produce antibodies. He notes that doctors in the last decade have stopped removing the appendix during other surgical procedures as a routine precaution, because it can be successfully transplanted into the urinary tract to rebuild a sphincter muscle and reconstruct a functional bladder.
Possible function of the human vermiform appendix as a "safe house" for beneficial bacteria in the recovery from diarrhea.
Although it was long accepted that the immune tissue, called gut associated lymphoid tissue, surrounding the appendix and elsewhere in the gut carries out a number of important functions, explanations were lacking for the distinctive shape of the appendix and its apparent lack of importance as judged by an absence of side-effects following appendectomy. William Parker, Randy Bollinger, and colleagues at Duke University proposed that the appendix serves as a haven for useful bacteria when illness flushes those bacteria from the rest of the intestines.This proposal is based on a new understanding of how the immune system supports the growth of beneficial intestinal bacteria in combination with many well-known features of the appendix, including its architecture and its association with copious amounts of immune tissue. Such a function is expected to be useful in a culture lacking modern sanitation and healthcare practice, where diarrhea may be prevalent. Current epidemiological data show that diarrhea is one of the leading causes of death in developing countries, indicating that as diarrhea flushes out the helpful bacteria the appendix helps recovery by providing a "safe house" for the bacteria.
Yeah I remember, it has immune function somehow.
OMG. Toe nails and nails in general are skins actually. For some reason they are rich in keratin that gives them that hard characteristics compared to our normal skin.
My personal "belief" which is moot, really, because it has no bearing on "the truth" - it is just my personal way of making sense of things . . . is that there was some intelligent design . . . I believe the world and all of its systems are too intricate to have been accidentally created . . . beyond the fact I think there was some creative design behind every natural thing on the earth does not preclude me from noticing some glaring imperfections like the ones I mentioned.
I don't believe in the big, bad, god in the sky . . . I think that is strictly a myth created by scared humans . . . so I don't ascribe to Adam and Eve and the story of Original Sin and how it is to blame for everything we cannot explain.
I understand others have their beliefs and feel strongly about them. I posted this, sincerely, in the Religion and Philosophy section because there is not just a philosophy section. This really has nothing to do with religion, per se, but I am postulating that there may be a god who designed us and if so did a rather poor job. I am sorry if you feel that is blasphemous . . . I can see that it would be to some, but to those of us who don't ascribe to the mythology of the bible, it is not. And hopefully, there is room for all of us in these discussions.
I understand there is quite a population of Christians on this board, but there are also those of other faiths and of other spiritual inclinations, and hopefully their thoughts are also tolerated.
And my comments were "tongue in cheek" as well...to illustrate what I thought of the "God Slam" put forth by the OP.
Gods design plan needs no "defense".
I didn't "concede" to evolution...it's obvious. God put forth a really cool set-up, huh?...works great IMO!
You error by trying to define "perfect" with your limited human understanding and comprehension. And by what authority do YOU, or anyone else, determine what "perfection" is? "Perfection" relative to what?...the OPINION of Orestes?! On what basis is YOUR opinion of what is "perfect" an objective fact? And if it's not...how can your statement, "Unfortunately, we didn't have a perfect engineer on the job during human development", have merit?
See my above comment on the appendix. Using the standard of your choice, please explain our perfect design in light of what we know about the appendix.
Please do prove my substantiated opinion wrong. And as for my definition of perfect? It's as simple as "perfect: not able to be improved upon". As such, it is how I applied perfect to the above example. Perfectly designed humans wouldn't die horribly painful deaths due to illness in a useless component. That is not a perfect design.
I assume from the above that you're gonna defer to the tired old "god's plan is unknowable to us pitiful humans", right? I'll continue to substantiate my opinions on fact. You can continue to form opinions based on whatever assumptions you choose. However, know this, a substantiated opinion is not the same thing as an assumption about how worthless we are and how unknowable some assumed god's grandeur is.
Have you ever heard of appendicitis? Prior to the appendectomy, how many people do you think died horribly painful deaths from appendicitis? The appendix is a useless artifact.
How about another? Toenails.
I think appendicitis is a "perfect" way to die.
MOF I think being "dead" is as "perfect" a condition as being "alive".
It's allllllll "perfect"!--know why?--because I said so!! Like that?...you should...it's no different than the basis from which you are making your statements.
Have you ever heard of appendicitis? Prior to the appendectomy, how many people do you think died horribly painful deaths from appendicitis? The appendix is a useless artifact.
How about another? Toenails.
Or human sinuses which are 'upside down' so they don't drain properly causing infection.
And, wisdom teeth.
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