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I am still waiting for an answer to my question...
Quote:
"Almost every atheist will admit that there is a chance, however slim, that he/she could be wrong and there could be a god. So I have a question for theists....Could you, or would you admit that you could be wrong, and god does not exist? I'm looking forward to any answers to this question."
The question is inherently unfair, sans . . . because you are addressing BELIEVERS. True belief is NOT a choice . . . so it is uncompromising. I defy you to disbelieve anything you truly believe is true . . . by choosing not to believe. You cannot do it and no one can.
Oh, I get it! Your name is really Mr. Nobody. LOL!!
Don't know what planet YOU are living on...but on the one I live on..."the beliefs of a majority of people" IS what "rules the day". You need to get hip to that.
You are too hung up on "empirical proof", "objective evidence", etc...and have lost touch of how the world REALLY works.
Tell the families of the people in the WTC on 9-11-01, or some girl from Middle East that is about to be the subject of an "honor killing", or the starving people that were just fed by some theologically based charity mission...that, "Peoples' beliefs have no bearing".
It has a bearing on the question...and more importantly, the world. Get a clue!
So does the fact that the majority of the world does not consider jesus to be god mean that the christian belief is false?
The question is inherently unfair, sans . . . because you are addressing BELIEVERS. True belief is NOT a choice . . . so it is uncompromising. I defy you to disbelieve anything you truly believe is true . . . by choosing not to believe. You cannot do it and no one can.
Not the way I see it...I believe what the evidence shows me to be true..Not a choice at all.
For everything else all I have is my opinion which may or may not be correct. Let's be fair, I admit that I might be wrong about the non existence of god, So I don't see why a theist could not also admit the possibility of being mistaken about the existence of god....Is the indoctrination so strong that he can't? I find that somewhat amazing and irrational.
At least some of you claim that God definitely does NOT exist. That's something you need to prove to me to believe it, just as theists need to prove to me that their God exists. Neither of you seem to be able to do so.
Sounds like you have a problem with gnostics (those who claim "to know"), rather than theists/atheists (those who simply believe, or not believe). There are either gnostic theists/atheists or agnostic theists/atheists. The definition of atheism does not address gnosticism or agnosticism, but rather just (non)- belief. If someone claims (to know) that god does/does not exist, this is a gnostic position. If someone claims to not know whether or not god does/does not exist, this is an agnostic position. If someone has a belief (or no belief) in god regardless of whether or not they know one exists, this is an atheist/theist/deist position.
Not the way I see it...I believe what the evidence shows me to be true..Not a choice at all.
For everything else all I have is my opinion which may or may not be correct. Let's be fair, I admit that I might be wrong about the non existence of god, So I don't see why a theist could not also admit the possibility of being mistaken about the existence of god....Is the indoctrination so strong that he can't? I find that somewhat amazing and irrational.
You just don't get it. You are correct . . . Belief is NOT a choice . . . so when it exists there is nothing to be done about it. If someone has a choice between two or more alternatives (or can change their mind about them) . . . they do NOT really BELIEVE ANY of them. They may choose to intellectually accept one or the other and claim belief . . . but there is no real BELIEF involved. True belief is NOT a choice . . . but it does exist separate from intellectual acceptance of alternatives. I KNOW there must be things you truly believe (regardless HOW you came to believe it or what evidence was involved). I DEFY you to CHOOSE not to believe them.
You just don't get it. You are correct . . . Belief is NOT a choice . . . so when it exists there is nothing to be done about it. If someone has a choice between two or more alternatives (or can change their mind about them) . . . they do NOT really BELIEVE ANY of them. They may choose to intellectually accept one or the other and claim belief . . . but there is no real BELIEF involved. True belief is NOT a choice . . . but it does exist separate from intellectual acceptance of alternatives. I KNOW there must be things you truly believe (regardless HOW you came to believe it or what evidence was involved). I DEFY you to CHOOSE not to believe them.
Dude, calm down. The comment that you were responding to asked whether you could acknowledge that you might be wrong; it did not ask if you could believe the opposite of what you believe.
The thing is, I agree with you that we cannot choose to believe something contrary to what we truly believe, but at the same time I can admit that there is a possibility, however remote, that I might be wrong.
So does the fact that the majority of the world does not consider jesus to be god mean that the christian belief is false?
Ahhhhhh...I see this same mistake EVERY time I make that statement.
You need to get hip to the BIG difference in what does and doesn't RULE...and what is or isn't TRUE or FALSE.
Something doesn't have to be "true" to "rule". It can be true...but that's not the only determining factor...MOF that's a rather insignificant factor.
So, to answer the question you SHOULD have asked in relation to my statement---Only where the majority believe "Jesus=God" does that "rule"...where that concept doesn't hold the majority it typically doesn't "rule".
Whether it is "true" that Jesus=God, is inconsequential to the influence of the concept.
Ahhhhhh...I see this same mistake EVERY time I make that statement.
You need to get hip to the BIG difference in what does and doesn't RULE...and what is or isn't TRUE or FALSE.
Something doesn't have to be "true" to "rule". It can be true...but that's not the only determining factor...MOF that's a rather insignificant factor.
So, to answer the question you SHOULD have asked in relation to my statement---Only where the majority believe "Jesus=God" does that "rule"...where that concept doesn't hold the majority it typically doesn't "rule".
Whether it is "true" that Jesus=God, is inconsequential to the influence of the concept.
You're in the wrong thread. If you go back to the OP you'll say that it asks specifically about evidence for nonexistence of gods, not for the existence or nonexistence of believers.
Ahhhhhh...I see this same mistake EVERY time I make that statement.
You need to get hip to the BIG difference in what does and doesn't RULE...and what is or isn't TRUE or FALSE.
Something doesn't have to be "true" to "rule". It can be true...but that's not the only determining factor...MOF that's a rather insignificant factor.
So, to answer the question you SHOULD have asked in relation to my statement---Only where the majority believe "Jesus=God" does that "rule"...where that concept doesn't hold the majority it typically doesn't "rule".
Well, the majority believe that Jesus is NOT god.
Quote:
Whether it is "true" that Jesus=God, is inconsequential to the influence of the concept.
I agree that something does not have to be "true" to be considered (majority) rule. So what are you talking about here in post #59 when you state the following:?
Quote:
"God Exists" has been the "Worldwide Standard" for thousands of years...that IS a fact...an objective fact...NOT an "opinion". That you are one of the small minority that dissents, doesn't change that FACT.
In the face of a long standing "Standard Concept"...the "Burden of Proof" is on the opposing concept.
THAT was the point of the post...and the issue I was addressing.
As usual...the OBJECTIVE FACT that Theism has always overwhelmingly dominated Atheism, gets an Atheist all bolloxed up
What "burden of proof" is needed for NOT believing that which may or may not be true?
I can just substitute the following using your quote:
"Jesus is NOT God" has been the "Worldwide Standard" for thousands of years...that IS a fact...an objective fact...NOT an "opinion". That you are one of the small minority that dissents, doesn't change that FACT.
In the face of a long standing "Standard Concept"...the "Burden of Proof" is on the opposing concept.
THAT was the point of the post...and the issue I was addressing.
As usual...the OBJECTIVE FACT that non-christians have always overwhelmingly dominated christians gets a christian all bolloxed up
The concept you're groping for here is reality. Reality is impervious to people's beliefs.
Let me see if I can make this simple enough for you to understand.
Think back to the time that the majority of people believed the sun revolved around the earth. Then, after scientific study, it was discovered that the former belief was not true, and that the sun did not revolve around the earth. Now, the majority of people believe that the earth revolves around the sun.
This may come as a shock to you, but the change in what the majority of people believe had no effect on whether the earth revolves around the sun or the sun revolves around the earth. The reality--there's that pesky concept again--was the same before and after.
Do you understand now, or do I need to try to make it even simpler for you?
Oh, it's "simple enough" for ME...too bad the concept was obviously NOT simple enough for YOU.
Your mistake is common. YOU are the one "groping for reality"...and coming up veeeeeeery short.
You need to get hip to the BIG difference in what does and doesn't RULE...and what is or isn't TRUE or FALSE.
Something doesn't have to be "true" to "rule". It can be true...but that's not the only determining factor...MOF that's a rather insignificant factor.
Using YOUR example.....
Think back to the time that the majority of people believed the sun revolved around the earth. THAT'S the concept that RULED at that time...regardless of the fact that is was not true. Just ask Galileo Galilei.
Once the majority belief shifted...what RULED shifted...but not until then.
This may come as a shock to you...but that is the way the world works...and is, in fact, the REALITY (there's that pesky concept again) of how things "go down" in REAL LIFE.
Right or wrong, true or not true---The majority belief typically RULES!
Do you understand now, or do I need to try to make it even simpler for you?
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