Did a World-Wide Flood in Noah's day Happen? (hell, Egyptian, America)
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Who said Noah remained out at sea with no provisions for 370 days? He had seeds because soon after he got out of the ark he planted a vineyard.
Unless you are going to say that a year was different in Noah's day Genesis says that from the 17th of the 2nd month round to 27th of the 2nd month next year (and if you want to argue about how close to 370 days that is, you will only make yourself look more of a clown) when the earth had dried out, Noah and his animals stayed aboard the ark and would have needed food and water for a year.
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Noah's ark was as large as a small World War II aircraft carrier.
Which does not help your case much because Lucid kittie's point is that a ship twice that size with al modern benefits is still going to have to reprovision by the end of a year. Even if Noah, after slithering down his muddy mountain could sow enough crops to feed his herbivores (though he still needs meat for the Tigers, eagles and Allosaurs) he still has to wait a couple of months before grass grows and more for crops and trees would take even longer to grow. Don't you see that this tale of yours is the insanity, not doubts about the structural feasibility of 400 foot long rabbit - hutch?
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The problem is they are looking in neolithic sites.
Many years prior to the world wide flood they were, at the very least, working with copper and iron:
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, moreover, she bears Tubalcain, a forger of every tool of copper and iron. And the sister of Tubalcain is Naamah.
This advanced technology thing of yours is becoming hysterical. Now before the neolitihic period, when the most advanced materials were stone, wood and bitumen (which is, by an odd coincidence, what the ark was made of, if we give you the drogue - stones) we have not only a bronze age but an Iron age.
Tubalcain indicates not that iron age technology existed in the late microlithic period (though not a trace of it has been found anywhere at all) but that the genesis story and the rest was written in the iron age, which puts it after 700 B.C.
P.s actually , no. The invention of iron or spread of it in the Middle east is pretty hotly contested now and some have claimed it for 2,500 BC. - which is pretty near early civilisation. Others place it around the 1st millennium. Eusebius can assert that it goes back even earlier than that, but the fact is that no mention of metal (or stone drogues) appears in the account of building the ark. And no metal s found in any site of or before middle or new stone age. I'll let you know if we ever do.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-02-2012 at 01:45 PM..
Who said Noah remained out at sea with no provisions for 370 days? He had seeds because soon after he got out of the ark he planted a vineyard.
Grape vines will not grow in land fouled by salt water, as a matter of fact hardly anything will.
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Noah's ark was as large as a small World War II air craft carrier.
The smallest carriers used in WWII were Essex class....They were 820 feet long X 93 feet wide...What made you think it would be possible to launch an aircraft in the fourties with a runway only 450 feet long?
Who said Noah remained out at sea with no provisions for 370 days? He had seeds because soon after he got out of the ark he planted a vineyard.
Noah's ark was as large as a small World War II air craft carrier.
The problem is they are looking in neolithic sites.
Many years prior to the world wide flood they were, at the very least, working with copper and iron:
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, moreover, she bears Tubalcain, a forger of every tool of copper and iron. And the sister of Tubalcain is Naamah.
Archaeology has confirmed that Man entered the metal age during the Neolithic age in Europe, Asia Minor, and the Middle East. It is contended here that the Flood of Noah brought the Neolithic age to a sudden and dramatic close. This, therefore, confirms the Biblical thesis that man had entered the metal age prior to the Flood for we read, "Zillah also had a son, Tubal Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron" (Genesis 4:22 NIV). The Hebrew word for bronze denotes both pure copper and or bronze. This definition would be in compliance with the copper tools of the Neolithic Age. The Iron Age is considered by archaeologists to be much later and would equate with the Egyptian Intermediate age (see Figure 2). The Hebrew word here could mean iron or metal. However, the Neolithic Vinca people who lived along the Danube River in Europe supported the mining of gold, copper and tin for export to the Near East. Vere Childe, a famous British pre-historian and archaeologist, was impressed by the pins, earrings and daggers with artistic style that reminded him of Palestinian and Asian handiwork. The oldest metallurgical mine in the world was discovered at Medzamor in Soviet Armenia. It is believed to be of Neolithic age. At this mine, craftsamen worked with copper, bronze, lead, zinc, iron, gold, tin, arsenic, antimony and manganese. Genesis International Research - Archaeological Evidences of Pre-Flood Civilizations
Reprovision means you need to actually get more AFTER You run out genius :roll eyes:. You aren't going to have enough for a years journey without stocking up later on. Also i am aware neolithic man had some abilities, their is no evidence however of large scale exploitation of deep sea resources. And given the states of tools at the time and social structure in which to achieve it was pretty much not possible at that time. You don't see the needed social stratification needed to undertake large building projects of epic proportion until the uruk period which mind you starts just as noahs little flood begins . And even then it's not really evident until the end of it all nearly 2000 years later. And a essex class carrier was nearly 900 ft in length. So basically you have not a clue about what you are yammering on about .
Who said Noah remained out at sea with no provisions for 370 days? He had seeds because soon after he got out of the ark he planted a vineyard.
Quote:
Unless you are going to say that a year was different in Noah's day Genesis says that from the 17th of the 2nd month round to 27th of the 2nd month next year (and if you want to argue about how close to 370 days that is, you will only make yourself look more of a clown) when the earth had dried out, Noah and his animals stayed aboard the ark and would have needed food and water for a year.
Here are the correct numbers:
The went into the ark 7 days prior to the flood and waited:
Gen 7:1-4 And saying is Yahweh Elohim to Noah, "Come, you and all your household, into the ark, for you I see righteous before Me in this generation. (2) Of every clean beast you are to take to you seven by seven, the sire and his dam, and of the beast which is not clean, of it a pair, the sire and his dam. (3) And, moreover, of the clean flyer of the heavens seven by seven, male and female, and of the flyer which is not clean, of it a pair, male and female, to keep alive seed on the surface of the entire earth. (4) For, seven days further, I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe every risen thing which I have made off the surface of the entire ground.
Gen 7:11-12 in the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month. On this day rent are all the springs of the vast submerged chaos, and the crevices of the heavens are opened, (12) and coming is the downpour on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Gen 8:4 And resting is the ark in the seventh month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat.
It took just 5 months from the start of the flood to when the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat.
Now, how long did it take until they exited the ark?
Gen 8:13-16 And coming is it, in the year six hundred and one of Noah's life, in the first month, on day one of the month, drained are the waters off the earth. And away is Noah taking the covering of the ark, which he had made, and seeing is he, and behold! Drained are the waters from the surface of the ground. (14) And in the second month on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth is dry. (15) And speaking is Yahweh Elohim to Noah, saying, (16) Fare forth from the ark, you, and your wife, and your sons, and your sons' wives with you.
The floods came on the 2nd month and 27th day.
The earth was dry by the 2nd month and 27th day.
It was that day on the 2nd month and 27th day they exited the ark.
That equals 365.242199 days from when the flood began and when the earth was dry.
Add 7 days they were in the ark prior to the flood and that equals actually 372 days. So I was off by two days.
By the way, the article I originally used said the floods came on the 17th day of the 2nd month. That is what the Hebrew states. But the Septuagint, which I follow, says "the 27th day of the 2nd month."
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Which does not help your case much because Lucid kittie's point is that a ship twice that size with al modern benefits is still going to have to reprovision by the end of a year. Even if Noah, after slithering down his muddy mountain could sow enough crops to feed his herbivores (though he still needs meat for the Tigers, eagles and Allosaurs) he still has to wait a couple of months before grass grows and more for crops and trees would take even longer to grow. Don't you see that this tale of yours is the insanity, not doubts about the structural feasibility of 400 foot long rabbit - hutch?
Obviously he had enough provisions to carry him and the animals through.
Quote:
This advanced technology thing of yours is becoming hysterical. Now before the neolitihic period, when the most advanced materials were stone, wood and bitumen (which is, by an odd coincidence, what the ark was made of, if we give you the drogue - stones) we have not only a bronze age but an Iron age.
Tubalcain indicates not that iron age technology existed in the late microlithic period (though not a trace of it has been found anywhere at all) but that the genesis story and the rest was written in the iron age, which puts it after 700 B.C.
Just because you don't know what you are talking about does not mean the Bible does not know what it is talking about. The Baghdad battery is roughly from about 400 BC. Where are all the wires they had to do the silver and gold plating with those batteries? Oh, since they can't find any wires, they couldn't have had plating going on back then. Your so-called "proof of non-existence" does not disprove existence.
Reprovision means you need to actually get more AFTER You run out genius :roll eyes:. You aren't going to have enough for a years journey without stocking up later on. Also i am aware neolithic man had some abilities, their is no evidence however of large scale exploitation of deep sea resources. And given the states of tools at the time and social structure in which to achieve it was pretty much not possible at that time. You don't see the needed social stratification needed to undertake large building projects of epic proportion until the uruk period which mind you starts just as noahs little flood begins . And even then it's not really evident until the end of it all nearly 2000 years later. And a essex class carrier was nearly 900 ft in length. So basically you have not a clue about what you are yammering on about .
Of course I know what I am talking about. There were called Light Aircraft Carriers in WWII and were smallest of the carrier group.
The went into the ark 7 days prior to the flood and waited:
Gen 7:1-4 And saying is Yahweh Elohim to Noah, "Come, you and all your household, into the ark, for you I see righteous before Me in this generation. (2) Of every clean beast you are to take to you seven by seven, the sire and his dam, and of the beast which is not clean, of it a pair, the sire and his dam. (3) And, moreover, of the clean flyer of the heavens seven by seven, male and female, and of the flyer which is not clean, of it a pair, male and female, to keep alive seed on the surface of the entire earth. (4) For, seven days further, I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe every risen thing which I have made off the surface of the entire ground.
Gen 7:11-12 in the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month. On this day rent are all the springs of the vast submerged chaos, and the crevices of the heavens are opened, (12) and coming is the downpour on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Gen 8:4 And resting is the ark in the seventh month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat.
It took just 5 months from the start of the flood to when the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat.
Now, how long did it take until they exited the ark?
Gen 8:13-16 And coming is it, in the year six hundred and one of Noah's life, in the first month, on day one of the month, drained are the waters off the earth. And away is Noah taking the covering of the ark, which he had made, and seeing is he, and behold! Drained are the waters from the surface of the ground. (14) And in the second month on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth is dry. (15) And speaking is Yahweh Elohim to Noah, saying, (16) Fare forth from the ark, you, and your wife, and your sons, and your sons' wives with you.
The floods came on the 2nd month and 27th day.
The earth was dry by the 2nd month and 27th day.
It was that day on the 2nd month and 27th day they exited the ark.
That equals 365.242199 days from when the flood began and when the earth was dry.
Add 7 days they were in the ark prior to the flood and that equals actually 372 days. So I was off by two days.
By the way, the article I originally used said the floods came on the 17th day of the 2nd month. That is what the Hebrew states. But the Septuagint, which I follow, says "the 27th day of the 2nd month."
Obviously he had enough provisions to carry him and the animals through.
Just because you don't know what you are talking about does not mean the Bible does not know what it is talking about. The Baghdad battery is roughly from about 400 BC. Where are all the wires they had to do the silver and gold plating with those batteries? Oh, since they can't find any wires, they couldn't have had plating going on back then. Your so-called "proof of non-existence" does not disprove existence.
Do you know how much an elephant eats? 300 Ib a day. Do you know how much it poops? 150 Ib a day. They drink 400 lb of water a day or 50 gallons. They pee 100 Ib, or 13 gallons every day. Now consider that there are other animals too like rhinoceros, the hippo, mammoths, extinct mammals, and dinosaurs.
Do you know how much an elephant eats? 300 Ib a day. Do you know how much it poops? 150 Ib a day. They drink 400 lb of water a day or 50 gallons. They pee 100 Ib, or 13 gallons every day. Now consider that there are other animals too like rhinoceros, the hippo, mammoths, extinct mammals, and dinosaurs.
This is a logistic nightmare.
Now figure it out for a baby elephant and you will do much better, under dark conditions in which they probably slept much of the time.
Now figure it out for a baby elephant and you will do much better, under dark conditions in which they probably slept much of the time.
This is a logistic sweet dream.
It seems that you dream a lot...By the way I made a mistake about the size of the smallest aircraft carriers used in WWII...The smallest were the Independence class...622.5 feet and 11,000 tons displacement....Way bigger than the fabled ark, but still way too small to do the job the MYTH says the ark did.
A modern US carrier stores enough food for 6000 people for 70 days.
Now figure it out for a baby elephant and you will do much better, under dark conditions in which they probably slept much of the time.
This is a logistic sweet dream.
There are 1.7 million known species on the planet. Just counting mammals, reptiles, birds and amphibians we are talking about 31,000. That's 31,000x2, 62,000 animals in the space...
Why am I arguing in 2011 something that was thoroughly debunked in the early 18th century?
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. And even then it's not really evident until the end of it all nearly 2000 years later. And a essex class carrier was nearly 900 ft in length. So basically you have not a clue about what you are yammering on about 
.
