Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
See heres the thing...those Egyptians came about 1000 years later than noah, in which development was a tad much more advanced. And you still don't see much in the way or large scale projects until past the pre dynastic period and into the old kingdom. And 'light carriers' as you say were still over 600 ft, and you still cannot provision them for a years duty. Even today they only carry enough for 90 days, and that is with modern methods of refrigeration and cooking. How much jerky, and stale bread do you think ol noahs barge could hold.
See this post in the current thread to see the days and nights spent, and how long the flood lasted - and how the Bible records two conflicting accounts concerning both: https://www.city-data.com/forum/23539798-post990.html
It is because two sources of the Flood Myth were redacted together. Literalists frequntly miss these glaring contradictions when insisting that it is one big story.
In fact, the Noah's Ark story is one of the best demonstrations of the composite nature of the authorship of the Bible.
The went into the ark 7 days prior to the flood and waited:
Gen 7:1-4 And saying is Yahweh Elohim to Noah, "Come, you and all your household, into the ark, for you I see righteous before Me in this generation. (2) Of every clean beast you are to take to you seven by seven, the sire and his dam, and of the beast which is not clean, of it a pair, the sire and his dam. (3) And, moreover, of the clean flyer of the heavens seven by seven, male and female, and of the flyer which is not clean, of it a pair, male and female, to keep alive seed on the surface of the entire earth. (4) For, seven days further, I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe every risen thing which I have made off the surface of the entire ground.
Gen 7:11-12 in the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month. On this day rent are all the springs of the vast submerged chaos, and the crevices of the heavens are opened, (12) and coming is the downpour on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Gen 8:4 And resting is the ark in the seventh month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat.
It took just 5 months from the start of the flood to when the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat.
Now, how long did it take until they exited the ark?
Gen 8:13-16 And coming is it, in the year six hundred and one of Noah's life, in the first month, on day one of the month, drained are the waters off the earth. And away is Noah taking the covering of the ark, which he had made, and seeing is he, and behold! Drained are the waters from the surface of the ground. (14) And in the second month on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth is dry. (15) And speaking is Yahweh Elohim to Noah, saying, (16) Fare forth from the ark, you, and your wife, and your sons, and your sons' wives with you.
The floods came on the 2nd month and 27th day.
The earth was dry by the 2nd month and 27th day.
It was that day on the 2nd month and 27th day they exited the ark.
That equals 365.242199 days from when the flood began and when the earth was dry.
Add 7 days they were in the ark prior to the flood and that equals actually 372 days. So I was off by two days.
By the way, the article I originally used said the floods came on the 17th day of the 2nd month. That is what the Hebrew states. But the Septuagint, which I follow, says "the 27th day of the 2nd month."
Obviously he had enough provisions to carry him and the animals through.
Just because you don't know what you are talking about does not mean the Bible does not know what it is talking about. The Baghdad battery is roughly from about 400 BC. Where are all the wires they had to do the silver and gold plating with those batteries? Oh, since they can't find any wires, they couldn't have had plating going on back then. Your so-called "proof of non-existence" does not disprove existence.
Now you are just being ridiculous dickering about the precise number of days in the year given for the stay on the ark, and obviously the unfeasibility of the provisioning, survival afterwards and the gathering of the animals in the first place is the real factor in whether the story is true, not your 'It's in the Bible, I believe it'.
It is an unfortunate fact that my being honest about evidence for iron - working long before iron is generally available in Assyrian times leaves me open to 'don't know what I'm talking about' claims.
Your Von Daniken Baghdad battery nonsense and absurd claims of machine tooling of Egyptian statues must surely show who does not know what they are talking about.
[quote=ovcatto;23683812]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
There are 1.7 million known species on the planet. Just counting mammals, reptiles, birds and amphibians we are talking about 31,000. That's 31,000x2, 62,000 animals in the space...
Why am I arguing in 2011 something that was thoroughly debunked in the early 18th century?
Because there are 40% of Americans who vote who still apparently think this myth is true.
The improbable supporting the impossible. All quite irrefutible!
Appreciated the redirect option, whoppers. I did fully read it this time, and I thank you for the considerable time & effort it took you to assemble it! As you correctly note, that's quite the interesting but fully contradictory story line!
Of course, from my professional perspectives, it still leaves the whole reproductivity & population dynamics thing in the lurch, since, of course, the biblical authors, a group of illiterate inexperienced wandering minstrel types knew essentially NOTHING of such matters. They did not realize that it alwaysrequires a minimum herd/flock/group size to ensure any possible survival.
This is why we wildlife professionals are all so worried about the status of the cheetah, the Bengal tiger, the snow leopard, coastal grizzlies and many other threatened species even when there are several thousand of them still remaining, and those are at least in their preferred if addled prime ecological territories, not dropped of on the top of a frozen dead mountain! (i.e.: Aratat @ 13,000 feet!)
The obivous pitfalls of successful survival require enough of a species (in both genders...) to survive disease, lost babies and a host of other obvious perils. Loss of a useful and plentiful food source and fresh water, for example. All completely lost in this Flood, sa per God's claimed and documented goals. Al of them, the evil plans included! (Even if He forgot about those danged plants He'd already pre-created, not too many plants could survive being pressed under literally 30,000 extra feet of water for a year, and still happily survive intact. At least not in the real world! now, in the fantasy world, where MAGIC is the name of the game, well then, HELL yes; it's all feasible. hy didn't you just say so, you mad-as-a-hatter Christian denialists?
To think that only two, one male and one female, of anything could even possibly re-populate, especially when the environment they are unceremoniously dumped off in was all dead, as per God's pre-stated goals.
Not to mention: just how did Noah re-start all the tens of thousands of plant species, many requiring specific temperature and humidity regimes? All that was forgotten in the mad rush to get 'em all on and then kept alive for 150 days, and then all off-loaded to the frozen mountain side,board, eh?
What sanctimonious tripe!
In other words, everything that lived, including all plants (also known as: edible vegetation), the various fresh and salt-water fish that bears and whales and other fish all eat.,.. all these had to be preserved and protected from raging oceanic storms (Eusebius: what did you think of my picture of the storm-washed top deck on that VERY seaworthy freighter/tanker?? Or did you just simply avoid it on purpose?)
PS: (I'd love to have seen Noah's holding facilities for even two Great Blue Whales. Not to mention all the other species: Blues, Belugas, Right's, Finbacks, and so on... Say: Which floor level were they kept on again? Two or Three? ).
Well, it just gets sillier and sillier, huh? Ecologically, hydrologically, geologically, oceanographically, environmentally and reproductively: all patently impossible, from literally any angle or evaluation.
And yet the blindered believers cling to it all like the two post-flood drowning cheetahs onto some rotting post-flood log! Just before they sank under the receding waves. Glub glub... All gone!
Now figure it out for a baby elephant and you will do much better, under dark conditions in which they probably slept much of the time.
This is a logistic sweet dream.
Yes, but even if it was a baby elephant, then keep in mind how much waste every kind on earth will produce in just one day? There are a lot of species and genuses.
Are you sure 8 people will be able to handle all the waste of all the kinds on earth?
Another problem: food. Noah would have had to grow food else it would rot. That requires a lot of space.
Yes, but even if it was a baby elephant, then keep in mind how much waste every kind on earth will produce in just one day? There are a lot of species and genuses.
Are you sure 8 people will be able to handle all the waste of all the kinds on earth?
Another problem: food. Noah would have had to grow food else it would rot. That requires a lot of space.
Why distraff; you apparently missed Eusebius' very interesting post in which he absolutely asserted that Noah had previously Freeze-Dried [.... .... ....] all the volumes of abso-necessary food, plus all the necessary volumes of potable fresh water to reconstitute it, for a prolonged year long cruise.
Plus of course the necessary anti-sea-sickness medications! Dramamine must have been on God's "Create it, and Fast!" list of Things to Do Before I Start That Flood!!
I'm serious!! That is indeed his actual and serious answer! All of it so casually assumed of course, not claimed in the biblical myth/allegory, which is ALL it's authors ever intended it to be: a learning tool, but definitely not a course in impossible key elements of survival, geology, hydrology, marine engineering using only wood and pitch, etc..
But then we have, in this country at least, mass social ignorance of the scientific principles of evidence and logic, that ignorance now manifested in the now-devout Christian masses who so obviously slept through their basic science classes lo those many long years ago, back in the pre-DNA understanding days of oh.. about 1950.
And so, predictably but crazily, they ACTUALLY believe it to be LITERAL! Quite a Hoot, huh? Quite a Hoot!
Why distraff; you apparently missed Eusebius' very interesting post in which he absolutely asserted that Noah had previously Freeze-Dried [.... .... ....] all the volumes of abso-necessary food, plus all the necessary volumes of potable fresh water to reconstitute it, for a prolonged year long cruise.
Plus of course the necessary anti-sea-sickness medications! Dramamine must have been on God's "Create it, and Fast!" list of Things to Do Before I Start That Flood!!
I'm serious!! That is indeed his actual and serious answer! All of it so casually assumed of course, not claimed in the biblical myth/allegory, which is ALL it's authors ever intended it to be: a learning tool, but definitely not a course in impossible key elements of survival, geology, hydrology, marine engineering using only wood and pitch, etc..
But then we have, in this country at least, mass social ignorance of the scientific principles of evidence and logic, that ignorance now manifested in the now-devout Christian masses who so obviously slept through their basic science classes lo those many long years ago, back in the pre-DNA understanding days of oh.. about 1950.
And so, predictably but crazily, they ACTUALLY believe it to be LITERAL! Quite a Hoot, huh? Quite a Hoot!
"how to survive a flood for dummies"
"the idiots guide to deluge"
"tax write offs for shipbuilders"
His answer will tell you all you ever need to know about him.
Bible literalists not only believe a global flood happened despite it's impossibility they also believe that Noah lived to the ripe old age of 950.
In other words they are barking mad.
That is how it begins to look when a dearly treasured theory begins to look ever more absurd and is propped up with increasingly fanciful claims.
Speaking of insanity...
As though the case for ark literalism was not looking sufficiently unbalanced, Eusebius had to misrepresent our objections to the Ark.
"I'm not fighting for my faith. I'm fighting against insanity which says it is impossible to build a viable 450 foot long ark." #1129
It is of course not impossible to build a 400 or even 450 foot Ark, Given a few years and a team of willing helpers, i could probably do it myself. But would it float? Would it ride out a sea - swell? Would it be viable?
For a while, perhaps in good conditions, but would it survive a year at sea full of animals? Would there be room for fodder for a year and probably more? Wouldn't it go off? Could every one of those animals be kept alive? Could a handful of people keep the animals fed, watered, mucked out and kept alive? Would two of every kind even provide a viable gene- pool?
Isn't it the case that there would be several months of starvation before even grass grew - let alone a year or so for fruit - trees and berry - bushes?
The mounting problems and the increasingly fanciful explanations invented to get over them (or simply dismissing them, if he can't think of even a fanciful explanation) is our real case, not the strawman argument that our Bible - literalist pal ascribes to us.
Appreciated the redirect option, whoppers. I did fully read it this time, and I thank you for the considerable time & effort it took you to assemble it! As you correctly note, that's quite the interesting but fully contradictory story line!
Of course, from my professional perspectives, it still leaves the whole reproductivity & population dynamics thing in the lurch, since, of course, the biblical authors, a group of illiterate inexperienced wandering minstrel types knew essentially NOTHING of such matters. They did not realize that it alwaysrequires a minimum herd/flock/group size to ensure any possible survival.
I agree with you on all the scientific problems 100%! I leave all that stuff to you guys, though (I'm not a scientist) - my approach is to see how composite the text is to begin with, see that it is modeled on previous flood myths from other peoples, and then I don't have to bother with whether it could have happened or not scientifically. In other words, I start with the textual problems. Once that's done, I know whether a flood-proponent has taken into account those problems or not the second he opens his mouth.
Not that this isn't all fascinating or anything - it certainly is! And the amount of time I spent on my post pales in comparison to the amount of time you and others have spent in this thread.
For the record - I remembered when Eusebius mentioned Noah's wondrous freeze-drying method on the mountain heh heh! How could I forget?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The improbable supporting the impossible. All quite irrefutible!
). 
.... 
.... 
....
