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I really can't quite get over thinking about this post. You must be omniscient, because you sure did read my mind, right down to the last little detail. I've essentially said the same thing on many occasions myself, but you sure did do a better job of it than I ever have.
But that 'safe bet' is just Pascals' wager - and you must have seen that shown up to be crock. While you were 'saying the same thing' did you never stop to think that there was no rational support for it?
But all this is just proving our case. Asked to provide some sort of evidential reason to believe in a god, all you can do is demand 100% proof of materialistic origins and disproof of any possibility of God - with of course the old 'Why don't you just shut up and let us alone to preach' card.
It only proves that you have nothing.
There's a question arising here of why we godless are intervening all the time. We are irritated by the posting of unsupported claims. To leave them unchallenged is to give tacit assent. We can't do it. It would be intellectual dishonesty.
Moreover, we think we are on a roll. Doubt about the whole religion worldview seems to be a groundswell. Seize the day. Let it go and we may not get another chance. The Fundamentalists were on a roll just recently.
While I can be sympathetic to the idea of letting people discuss Buddhism or Hinduism without diving in and saying it doesn't add up, there are some posts that seem to throw down a gauntlet. 'Ten proofs of Allah' sort of thing. And Christians dive in as much as the atheists.
Why do you consider it so important, this war between atheists and. Believers? I don't get mad that people are atheists. I don't call them names,insult their intelligence etc just because they have a different belief. If you find comfort and happiness in eternal oblivion at death, in loss of cocsiosness forever, that's your prerogative. Makes no sense to me, but not my issue.
I have zero interest in preaching to you. Zero. What you believe is your business. I DON'T CARE. But you seem to care ALOT about what I and others like me believe. Why?
Comments that "we have nothing" are purely meant to antagonize. To get a reaction, to evoke a response, to irritate. I have no interest in convincing you you are mistaken - not that anyone could. But you sure as hell want me or someone to, so you can rip the Comments to pieces, don't you? Sorry hoss, you lose. lol
Oh are you so intellectual honest that some blog on the Internet would disrupt your world if it went unchallenged by your superior intellect? Gosh. There are lots of blogs about miracle cures and other bogus scams. Why don't you do some real good and out these crooks and charlatans? Huh? Actually use your superior intellect t help another human. What a novel idea, huh?
I dont mind discussion and debate. I like it, actually. Disrespect and belittling I don't care for. I'm weird like that.
All atheists want is 100% proof that god exists. No one can give that, and y'all know it. Yet atheists crave posts from those that would try. That's just an online bully, lording intellect might over the perceived weaker ones. Pathetic.
Person A cannot prove to Person B that anything exists. All that exists actually exists within the mind of the person living, witnessing, and experiencing his/her individual life.
To stretch the point even further, Person A cannot prove to me that he/she exists.
"I'll believe it when I see it."
"I'll see it when I believe it."
Since reality lies in the sole hands of the individual, other people trying to convince that person of any "reality" is akin to trying to make a pig sing. Everyone knows that trying to make a pig sing is not only a waste of time but tries greatly the patience of the pig.
And yet, people are hell-bent in still trying to make that pig sing instead of leaving things alone and accepting the "reality" that not everyone shares the same "reality."
Yes they are. They say that there is nothing besides what we can see or experience. You can doubt divinity or the spiritual and be agnostic. You can certainly doubt fundamentalist claims with literal interpretations of religious books. You don't know that there is or isn't something beside what you see.
]a·the·ist
noun a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Nothing more, nothing less. It seems it has become common practice to add to this definition in discussions like these. Infact, there is no "rule" stating that Atheists can't or dont believe in things we cant see or experience. Though rare, there are even atheists that believe in an afterlife.
But that 'safe bet' is just Pascals' wager - and you must have seen that shown up to be crock. While you were 'saying the same thing' did you never stop to think that there was no rational support for it?
Of course I did. But since I have never seen anyone rationally discredit my faith either, I see no use in giving up something that has made me a better, happier person than I'd be without it. No matter how much people want to insist otherwise, there are simply some things that cannot be proven, and the fact that they cannot be proven doesn't mean a darned thing except that they can't be proven. I have considered the possibility that there is no God, but I simply can't conceive of a universe as complex as ours is coming into existance without some kind of Intelligent Power behind it. (And no, I'm not a young-earth creationist; I believe in evolution.) So maybe it will turn out that I'm wrong. Maybe when I die, there will be nothing. If that's the case, I certainly won't be any worse for having had faith that there's a life after this one. I'm not the kind of person who really cares whether other people believe in God or not, but I swear I'll never understand why it bothers people so much that I do believe. That's it from me. I have absolutely no interest in trying to convince anybody of anything. I just wanted to tell Omniscient1 how closely I could relate to his post.
Person A cannot prove to Person B that anything exists. All that exists actually exists within the mind of the person living, witnessing, and experiencing his/her individual life.
To stretch the point even further, Person A cannot prove to me that he/she exists.
"I'll believe it when I see it."
"I'll see it when I believe it."
Since reality lies in the sole hands of the individual, other people trying to convince that person of any "reality" is akin to trying to make a pig sing. Everyone knows that trying to make a pig sing is not only a waste of time but tries greatly the patience of the pig.
And yet, people are hell-bent in still trying to make that pig sing instead of leaving things alone and accepting the "reality" that not everyone shares the same "reality."
I quite agree. We unbeliving satanspawn of the atheistic science religion of Darwinism are simply saying that pigs don't (according to all the evidence) sing. And we wish that the people who tinker with semantics, chop - logic and philosophical speculations about what the Pig -label can be applied to and what one might regard as 'singing' and, failing that, argue that pigs sing in mystical ways we can't understand and is a matter of Faith, beyond mere empirical evidence, would stop doing it and accept that disbelief in singing or indeed flying, pigs is the rational default.
We can prove by exact scientific and quantitive facts that the Human race evolved over many many many years. The Earth was in existance long before life developed here and all of this can be absolutely proven with fact.
Creation by some kind of God however cannot be proven by any kind of factual analysis. This is why a God cannot be either proved or disproved because to do that.... a God would have to actually exist but there is no such thing as a God to even try to quantify.......... impossible, in fact, to prove in any way or disprove. To tell someone that you "believe" something exists with nothing to actually Analise is nothing more than a belief and beliefs only exist with hard cold facts......... beliefs without hard cold analytical facts are just "fairy tales" nothing more.
So now you see the "nothing" option completely applies to the concept of some kind of God........ in fact it is the only option as there is absolutely NO real proof or evidence of a God existing anywhere...... except in the mind..... like a child's imaginary friend........
I seem to have to explain this to every newbie that comes down the pike. Whatever is responsible for existence and our reality cannot be denied and it is responsible for us. Whatever you think about what that IS . . . it is definitely our God (Creator) . . . not nothing.
Of course I did. But since I have never seen anyone rationally discredit my faith either, I see no use in giving up something that has made me a better, happier person than I'd be without it. No matter how much people want to insist otherwise, there are simply some things that cannot be proven, and the fact that they cannot be proven doesn't mean a darned thing except that they can't be proven. I have considered the possibility that there is no God, but I simply can't conceive of a universe as complex as ours is coming into existance without some kind of Intelligent Power behind it. (And no, I'm not a young-earth creationist; I believe in evolution.) So maybe it will turn out that I'm wrong. Maybe when I die, there will be nothing. If that's the case, I certainly won't be any worse for having had faith that there's a life after this one. I'm not the kind of person who really cares whether other people believe in God or not, but I swear I'll never understand why it bothers people so much that I do believe. That's it from me. I have absolutely no interest in trying to convince anybody of anything. I just wanted to tell Omniscient1 how closely I could relate to his post.
Even though I'm an atheist, I don't think it's "wrong" for a person to believe in God. I also don't believe it's impossible that God exists, just very unlikely based on the evidence I've seen. But I can also understand why believing in God can make sense to some people and having faith in God can make some people happier, as you point out.
That's all cool. Unfortunately, the problem is that some theists don't stop there, but they go farther than that and say if you don't see and believe things their way, then you won't be "saved" and are condemned to hell. Not only that, they take action against you based on their beliefs and don't hesitate to do the condemning themselves.
That is where I start to take issue. I think we should all live and let live, and not judge other people's freedom of conscience based on our subjective beliefs. That's what makes sense to me.
Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 04-27-2012 at 11:20 PM..
Even though I'm an atheist, I don't think it's "wrong" for a person to believe in God. I also don't believe it's impossible that God exists, just very unlikely based on the evidence I've seen. But I can also understand why believing in God can make sense to some people and having faith in God can make some people happier, as you point out.
That's all cool. Unfortunately, the problem is that some theists don't stop there, but they go farther than that and say if you don't see and believe things their way, then you won't be "saved" and are condemned to hell. Not only that, they take action against you based on their beliefs and don't hesitate to do the condemning themselves.
That is where I start to take issue. I think we should all live and let live, and not judge others based on our subjective beliefs. That's what makes sense to me.
Then attack those that attack your beliefs, let the rest live in peace!
There is no way humans can fully comprehend the universe at this stage. We are barely out of our caves! there is plenty of evidence of a higher power, Just no absolute proof. If there was imagine how differently humans would conduct themselves. Perhaps its why there isn't. It's easy to be good when you know the boss is watching, yes....?
"A Personal Challenge - Please PROVE to me that "God" exists"
Please prove to me He doesn't----stale mate. LOL
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I've essentially said the same thing on many occasions myself, but you sure did do a better job of it than I ever have.
