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I don't get mad that people are atheists. I don't call them names,insult their intelligence etc just because they have a different belief.
Comments that "we have nothing" are purely meant to antagonize. To get a reaction, to evoke a response, to irritate. I have no interest in convincing you you are mistaken.
I dont mind discussion and debate. I like it, actually. Disrespect and belittling I don't care for. I'm weird like that.
All atheists want is 100% proof that god exists. No one can give that, and y'all know it. Yet atheists crave posts from those that would try. That's just an online bully, lording intellect might over the perceived weaker ones. Pathetic.
Pathetic huh? So then, we get this, which certainly qualifies as a nice innocent little combative rant...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigers84
for some reason atheists feel this burning rage to turn happy believers into unhappy semi non believers. It's almost like they take personal affront at any soul who is happy with their faith. Why? If they are good people leading decent lives, why do atheists want to upend that? What's the point?
What do atheists gain from turning a satisfied believer into a dissatisfied semi nonbeliever? And why do they think insults are an effective prosoltization method? Most Christians do not employ insults in their conversion efforts...
The fact that atheists are so hate filled as to have a need convince strangers that oblivion awaits them in eternity makes me believe in a higher being even more. It's just another test of faith.
rflmn's comment: Seems to me you're painting all of us atheists with the same hateful uni-colored brush, tigers, but then, that's what you devout faith-based Christians do, since you have no concrete or even vaguely valid arguments for your side. After all, how DO you defend a total myth that's been categorically disproven so many times, over and over?
And which is also in direct competition with about (oh, let's just conservatively guesstimate here for argument's sake...) a couple hundred other non-Abrahamic God-based religions whose followers are easily as devout as you are? So they're all wrong, and we're all wrong, and only you are absolutely right? Because you read mis-information about the evolution of the eye, it being irreducibly complex and all... (WRONG btw) on AiG?
Quite compelling I must say.
Your vast mis-understanding of atheism is also typical of what they've taught you over at AiG etc. (the hokus-pokus websites, let's just call them... and whose distinct odor I detect in your post about the evolution of the eye). Typical, but so easily debunked. I also know it's pointless to spell it out to you. BTW, Evolution has been summarily proven beyond a doubt, but you're too frightened to read, let's say, Lenski, 2008.
You guys also all run and hide from my continued requests, at least 15 times in the past year or so, for any of you so-called open-minded Christians to tell me/us exactly which element(s) of the processes of Evolution (which we've absolutely proven beyond any rational doubt...) DO NOT OPERATE.
Which one, tigers? Which one does not happen, and/or has not been documented and thus does not result in the accumulation of an altered genome (and thus phenome) over time, and thus, results in a new species?
Do this without, you know, a redefinition by you of that word, OK? Which one does not work? I'll wait for your polite and informed answer, but please: no asinine quotes from Carl Baugh or Kent Hovind etc., or biblical quotes! I'd like your well-thought-out and validated position on the subject, OK?
(Gawd... it's soooo easy to dissemble the typical Christian "argument", since it's always based on fantasy or ad hominems when they find themselves utterly cornered...)
I particularly liked this following defensive-reactive response as well! Designed to stop others from getting themselves cornered as well. OK: protect the flock; I get it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigers84
Please ignore this, people. He wants god proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Oh brother. Doubt is a part of faith! He is looking for a fight, not a discussion. Ignore this request, please!
Ps, there are plenty of books on the subject that will be more in depth than anything written here. if you are truly interested!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman
Proof positive requires empirical evidence. There isn't any in either direction.
Christians can't prove their claim, neither can Atheists. The closest thing that either side of this argument have to evidence is their belief and that wouldn't stand in court as solid proof. It's anecdotal at best.
rflmn notes: Well, pam, the problem for Christians is that so many of the concepts and so-called proofs of their God have been summarily proven to be the absolute result of other far more logical and non=supernatural or magical causal factors. We have proof-positive of Evolution [as we've always defined it, not abiogenesis, not wild idea Missing Link cat-into-dog overnight nonsense either...], of an ancient earth, of an unfinished universe that's expanding away from an original point starting at a given time [which ,btw, was CERTAINLY NOT a mere 6000 yrs ago...]; of fossils that date with ever-more accurate techniques to be millions of years old, even if we take the highest error rates and the most conservative ages (probably these things are even older...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman
Yes, you do have someone to answer to. Yourself.
Exactly, pam! DustBowl's silliness is ripe for the plucking. It absolutely assumes that, absent his God, all we atheists run around absent any common-sense, or moral or ethical standards, and that we need a good spanking or threats to stay in line!
Meaning that good and ethical behavior is unaccomplishable without his God lording it over us. Not to mention that only Christians therefore have such ethics, and that therefore atheists must of needs all be unethical, unless we secretly believe in God! What endless tripe!
And how socially insulting, but then, what's new about that sort of accusation from fundies?
Don't believe it? Well... here it is, in a sarcastic nutshell, just how we can't survive as ethical people without DustBowl's God...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust Bowl
I just can't see how in this day in age, people believe in God.
They just don't understand the freedom one has without an authoritative figure keeping me accountable for all my actions and trying to make me live righteously through the words of his son.
Why should I live righteously? Look at the example that those in power have set for us.
Atheism gives you the opportunity to do whatever you want and if there is a rule against it, you can change it because there is no fundamental set of rules that usurps man's law.
If I see an attractive female, I can have sex with her and feel no remorse even though I'm currently in a relationship. As long as I cover my tracks, I can do as I wish.
If only people could understand the power of atheism, I think we would be able to convert more people to this lifestyle.
However, I will admit that if we suffer some sort of massive ecological collapse in which the entire world is affected, I may try to convince people they are responsible for their actions when they die because I don't want to be murdered myself.
I know that's hypocritical, but who says I can't lie? I'm an atheist.
And I love it.
Can anyone else relate?
rfmn: Yeah, that's us godless heathen untrustable atheists, ain't it? Lying, cheating on our wives, hurting others on purpose, all while Jimmy Swaggert sobs for the camera on TV, or Tammy Fay Baker and her "fab" hubby Jimmy (the felon...) runs her mascara on screen for the best dramatic effect (puh-leeze don't stop with them donations though...)... All great examples of those ultimate Christian God-guided ethics, you betcha!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigers84
Wrong. Faith is required in situations where there is not 100% certainty. Faith that the plane will not crash. Faith in your spouse that they aren't cheating. If you know something you don't need faith.
rflmn responds: But then what then do you do when you are led to inescapable proof that the very thing you've held your ultimate and unshakable faith in is consumately disproven right before your eyes and mind? Then do you just squeeze the eyes, ears and mind tightly shut and press on? Apparently so.
Faith is in things you can have it in, not in things that have been repeatedly disproven. Too bad about the loss of that death Salvation promise though huh?
We have faith in aircraft staying aloft precisely because we have a long history of SM-based research and experience, plus endless examples to take such faith from. Planes indeed used to crash often, and no, I wouldn't necessarily have the same faith 120 years ago in this...
Science does improve our overall understandings of most all things from the bad old Druid monk and goatherd prophet days, y'know!
As well, you might be surprised, even with your faith, that it's actually quite possible for your wife to be cheating on you. It happens. What you meant to say, obviously, is that you hope she/he doesn't cheat on you, but you also know full well it happens in about 40% of all marriages, more so in the Christian ones, btw...
So OK: Deny Evolution all you want. That certainly does not make it untrue, and if you were capable of honest interpretation, of reading the published study results from literally tens of millions of peer-reviewed work. But obviously all the results of a giant global conspiracy of scientists, but just as oddly, only affecting those danged dishonest Evolutionary biologists...(like me, natch, & thx for the direct insult..))
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigers84
Prove to us that life can form spontaneously from non life. Prove it outside a lab. Show me the hard evidence of how it actually happened millions of years ago - not conjecture. No theories - proof.
Prove to me how the complex instructions within DNA developed naturally. Show me the step by step evolution of no DNA to the entire DNA sequence
rflmn's final comments tonight: Done and done, but you wouldn't read it if I placed it in your lap and turned the pages for you. Or, as we've seen repeatedly when Christians are cornered by fact, you'd just redefine it all. So why should I hold my breath?
By the way, why don't you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your God insta-poofed it all into instant existence in one week, that He got all the species on this planet into one leaky unpowered barge, setting out on a globally inundated earth (water up to the 29,000 foot level in 40 days...) and that dinosaurs happily coexisted with man in their villages.
Or that such an array of devastated animals could then effectively repopulate an entire planet based on some ecologically idiotic two-of-each species array (also knowing that there are at least 40 -60M, and probably 100M, markedly unique species now known counted or conservatively estimated on this planet, plus the other few multi-million that have gone extinct in the past 10,000+ years. All had to be represented on Noah's now seemingly tiny little pitch-sealed one-windowed luxury yacht).
And upon their hasty disembarkation off that battered, guano-filled, un-steerable & unpowered barge, and onto a totally dead food-free planet they then did what again? Dropped off at the 13,00 foot frozen foot level? They set to repopulating this entire planet? A nice Amazonian parrot pair's ecological dream come true, out there on that glacial & treeless land up on Ararat?! OK: now then, let's see those loverly young parrots set to finding some nice ripe bananas that God designed just to fit the human hand perfectly, OK? (I mean, after all, Kent Hovind says so!)
Else, get on with showing me the co-buried artifact remnants of T-Rex bones alongside those of humans and their camp utensils (if there would be any recognizable remnants after a herd of T-Rexs and their usual accompanying Velociraptor cleanup scavengers had finished "lunching" on them all.. or those 40 - 60 rambling herd of 10 tonne Apatosauri spp. had peacefully wandered through, pretty much devastating the village's corn crop for the year, all in about 10 minutes...) ). Then show me lions and lambs laying down in peaceful harmony together.
Or better yet: show me God replacing an amputated limb for some hyper-devout Christian kid whose entire congregation back home in good old religi-pious Indiana fervently prayed for him when his leg was blown off in Afghanistan last year,. Or ever, for that matter. Just one instance of limb regeneration, OK? Just ONE!! (After all, your generous God happily does it for some "lesser animal" lizards! Why not us, who He created in His own egotistical image?)
Or how about the reversal of disease for someone with terminal cancer, that is statistically different from the less than 50:50 chance that the religious have in such cases (it's worse than for atheists btw, since we don't deny proper medical care when it's indicated, unlike some overly devout Christians will do.. How stupid and sad!)
Yup. Makes perfect proofy sense to me too! Yah got me there! (BTW, you guys are all REALLY gullible, yah know that? It's really kinda humorous!)
Elsewise, just show me something approaching any of this, OK? I'll be awaiting, but I'll admit with dwindling patience, since I've been patiently asking for these answers for >>3 years, and so far.... NADA
Who says? It's harder to prove the negative so you do have the harder job I agree.
I have no interest is attempting to prove what cannot be proven, but I would think that if any gods have ever existed there would at least be some evidence, don't you?
Incidentally, which of the thousands of gods in human history would you like me to prove?
Yes they are. (Atheists) say that there is nothing besides what we can see or experience.
You couldn't be more wrong. Atheists simply disbelieve in creator god(s) who interact with us on any level.
I know many atheists (though I don't count myself as one really) and I don't think there's one among them who would say they only believe in what they can see or experience. There are all kinds of phenomena in the universe that we not only can't yet explain, but are unaware of the existence of.
That doesn't mean there is a god or gods.
It means even less that one particular god from the beliefs and myths of one particular culture is "real" or actually exists.
Whether or not in some corner of the cosmos or some other dimension there exist beings (or One Supreme Being) we might call gods is simply more than any human knows.
Personally, I see no reason to default to the belief in invisible supernatural entities who created us or have any concern for us or control over us, since there has never been a shred of evidence for their existence.
Admittedly, I could be wrong.
But I do not believe that, if there is a god or gods, they fit the descriptions put forth by humans in any religion or holy writings.
I have no interest is attempting to prove what cannot be proven, but I would think that if any gods have ever existed there would at least be some evidence, don't you?
Incidentally, which of the thousands of gods in human history would you like me to prove?
I thought you were going to prove there was no God. If you ask people to prove something to you then it's only fair to ask you to prove something.
That's not the way it works...The one making the claim for existence has the burden of proof.
True.
I think Christopher Hitchens was often abrasive and almost proselytizing with his lack of belief, but this quote of his is entirely accurate:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
I can try all day long to call someone up on charges of having run over me with their car. But if we go to court, I have to present evidence and proofs of this. The burden is on me.
I thought you were going to prove there was no God. If you ask people to prove something to you then it's only fair to ask you to prove something.
This reminds me of the saying that everyone is an atheist to one degree or another.
A person who believes, say, in Yahweh the patron deity of some sects of ancient Hebrews, is an atheist when it comes to Ahura Mazda and Zeus and Shiva and Thor, etc., etc.
If you ask yourself why you believe in some god or other but do NOT believe in any of these others, then you'll understand why I don't believe in your gods...
I thought you were going to prove there was no God. If you ask people to prove something to you then it's only fair to ask you to prove something.
Where have you ever heard me say that? I do not think that there are any gods, but I do not see how it can be proven that there are none any more than you can prove that leprechauns do not exist. Myths cannot be disproven...
I also do not expect anyone to prove that a god, any god exists, but I would be satisfied with just one piece of valid evidence, and I'm not talking about testimonials that cannot be substantiated....
If I see god saving the 15 million children that starve yearly, I would convert in an instant....Not really a big order for a being that is supposed to be all powerful is it?
Pathetic huh? So then, we get this, which certainly qualifies as a nice innocent little combative rant...
rflmn's comment: Seems to me you're painting all of us atheists with the same hateful uni-colored brush, tigers, but then, that's what you devout faith-based Christians do, since you have no concrete or even vaguely valid arguments for your side. After all, how DO you defend a total myth that's been categorically disproven so many times, over and over?
And which is also in direct competition with about (oh, let's just conservatively guesstimate here for argument's sake...) a couple hundred other non-Abrahamic God-based religions whose followers are easily as devout as you are? So they're all wrong, and we're all wrong, and only you are absolutely right? Because you read mis-information about the evolution of the eye, it being irreducibly complex and all
As well, you might be surprised, even with your faith, that it's actually quite possible for your wife to be cheating on you. It happens. What you meant to say, obviously, is that you hope she/he doesn't cheat on you, but you also know full well it happens in about 40% of all marriages, more so in the Christian ones, btw...
So OK: Deny Evolution all you want. That certainly does not make it untrue, and if you were capable of honest interpretation, of reading the published study results from literally tens of millions of peer-reviewed work. But obviously all the results of a giant global conspiracy of scientists, but just as oddly, only affecting those danged dishonest Evolutionary biologists...(like me, natch, & thx for the direct insult..))
rflmn's final comments tonight: Done and done, but you wouldn't read it if I placed it in your lap and turned the pages for you. Or, as we've seen repeatedly when Christians are cornered by fact, you'd just redefine it all. So why should I hold my breath?
By the way, why don't you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your God insta-poofed it all into instant existence in one week, that He got all the species on this planet into one leaky unpowered barge, setting out on a globally inundated earth (water up to the 29,000 foot level in 40 days...) and that dinosaurs happily coexisted with man in their villages.
Or that such an array of devastated animals could then effectively repopulate an entire planet based on some ecologically idiotic two-of-each species array (also knowing that there are at least 40 -60M, and probably 100M, markedly unique species now known counted or conservatively estimated on this planet, plus the other few multi-million that have gone extinct in the past 10,000+ years. All had to be represented on Noah's now seemingly tiny little pitch-sealed one-windowed luxury yacht).
And upon their hasty disembarkation off that battered, guano-pfilled, un-steerable & unpowered barge, and onto a totally dead food-free planet they then did what again? Dropped off at the 13,00 foot frozen foot level? They set to repopulating this entire planet? A nice Amazonian parrot pair's ecological dream come true, out there on that glacial & treeless land up on Ararat?! OK: now then, let's see those loverly young parrots set to finding some nice ripe bananas that God designed just to fit the human hand perfectly, OK? (I mean, after all, Kent Hovind says so!)
Else, get on with showing me the co-buried artifact remnants of T-Rex bones alongside those of humans and their camp utensils (if there would be any recognizable remnants after a herd of T-Rexs and their usual accompanying Velociraptor cleanup scavengers had finished "lunching" on them all.. or those 40 - 60 rambling herd of 10 tonne Apatosauri spp. had peacefully wandered through, pretty much devastating the village's corn crop for the year, all in about 10 minutes...) ). Then show me lions and lambs laying down in peaceful harmony together.
Or better yet: show me God replacing an amputated limb for some hyper-devout Christian kid whose entire congregation back home in good old religi-pious Indiana fervently prayed for him when his leg was blown off in Afghanistan last year,. Or ever, for that matter. Just one instance of limb regeneration, OK? Just ONE!! (After all, your generous God happily does it for some "lesser animal" lizards! Why not us, who He created in His own egotistical image?)
Or how about the reversal of disease for someone with terminal cancer, that is statistically different from the less than 50:50 chance that the religious have in such cases (it's worse than for atheists btw, since we don't deny proper medical care when it's indicated, unlike some overly devout Christians will do.. How stupid and sad!)
Yup. Makes perfect proofy sense to me too! Yah got me there! (BTW, you guys are all REALLY gullible, yah know that? It's really kinda humorous!)
Elsewise, just show me something approaching any of this, OK? I'll be awaiting, but I'll admit with dwindling patience, since I've been patiently asking for these answers for >>3 years, and so far.... NADA
Moderator cut: deleteI'm not some über Christian. I believe in a higher being that (may or may not be Christian.) I believe evolution happened, But that god may still have had a part in our becoming sentient beings. I dont know AIG.
I dont care if you're an atheist. I'm puzzled why you care so much that I'm not.
Moderator cut: delete.
Belief in god is a personal choice. Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 04-30-2012 at 06:03 AM..
Reason: personal attacks
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Dismembering of the daily nonsense...
