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Even if this were so, on babies being born atheist, it might not mean that much. Babies are also born incontinent and illiterate too. It seems possible to me, going by some anthropology, that counting past a thousand is also something people may not instinctively know or do. This doesn't tell us the number 1,001 is made up. (And possibly counting past just 20 was not always necessary or natural)
Personally I think atheism can't simply mean ignorance or dogs are atheists, crocodiles are atheists, goldfish are atheist, termites are atheist, etc. Possibly it's more like we're born pre-theist, or pre-atheist, rather than anything.
I know. Even though I tried to be nice to them by greeting both religious and non-religious, they still attack us.
It's difficult to discuss religious issue with some atheists.
you are forgiven for your emotional projection. It seems always difficult for religionists to discuss things without getting emotional and narrow-minded, thus hurting themselves by what others say. I have many times insulted atheists to their face for their atheism (baselessly of course and only to friends) and they have never gotten as violent and discomforted as my religionist friends. I have never taken critics as "attacks" instead displays or attempts at helpfulness... to the writer, reader, or self. I, of course, help back by actually responding to individual points and not having self-congratulatory side conversations with those who already agree with me.
you are forgiven for your emotional projection. It seems always difficult for religionists to discuss things without getting emotional and narrow-minded, thus hurting themselves by what others say. I have many times insulted atheists to their face for their atheism (baselessly of course and only to friends) and they have never gotten as violent and discomforted as my religionist friends. I have never taken critics as "attacks" instead displays or attempts at helpfulness... to the writer, reader, or self. I, of course, help back by actually responding to individual points and not having self-congratulatory side conversations with those who already agree with me.
Religion and faith is something very sensitive for believers. I think that since nonbelievers do not believe in any religion and faith, they should not attack any religion because it makes us getting very sad. We have moral and take it seriosly. It does not mean anything for them, but it really means something for us. Everytime I see a picture of Jesus, pass by a church and see a cross, it makes me both happy and also makes me almost cry.
I never forced any Jews to accept Jesus Christ at all. I just discussed and told them that according to "Messianic Jews", they consider themselves Jews. A Christian is a person who is baptised and accept Jesus Christ as his lord and saviour.
I myself as a Christian do not consider them Christian at all because they never attend church, nor do they celebrate Christmas and Easter.
Regards to saying that "I don't listen to any atheists". Yes, it's true I said that because that atheist on the other thread was unfortunately arrogant and attacked my religion.
Any non-Christian who is tolerant are more than welcome to discuss anything with me
Christmas and Easter are replacements to pagan holidays. Why should a Messianic Jew celebrate Christmas is they don't celebrate the birthdate of their other messiahs? Do Jews even have a holiday for the birth of David?
Is that what a Christian is? not much to a Christian is there? Why the need to accept Jesus as Lord when YHWH was fine being worshiped by himself before? Oh is it that Jesus and YHWH are one and the same? Then YHWH can still be worshiped by himself alone and the Muslims and Jews are right! Oh but God has a new rule that all people must accept his messiah/himself as Lord... oh wait Jews and Muslims already accept him as lord... which means they accept Jesus since they are one and the same!
Did the Messiah command them: Attend Church? I don't remember hearing more legitimate hearsay about that. In fact, I remember Jesus preaching in synagogues.
Are Christians not arrogant when they attack babies as deserving hell fire for not accepting Jesus? Or perhaps children then?
critiques on forums are not a sign of intolerance, in fact, they are usually a sign of wanting dialogue and connection.
Do you know why the descendants of pagans who converted to Jesus', Paul's, etc's religion came to be called Christian? because people that didn't like them started calling them arrogant (the word "Annointed" having connotations of "Arrogant"). Do you know what the Christians were called before they decided to take Paul's advice to accept the title of their religion as Christian? Atheists!
According to you religion is a fairy tale, but for the majority of the world and in this nation it is not.
When I was born, I was born without any religion - then I got baptised as an infant and became Christian. However just because I was baptised does not mean I will go to heaven and paradise guaranteed unless I behave like a faithful and good Christian.
Allah means God in Arabic.
Muslims do not have different God than Jews and Christians. We all worship the same Abrahamic God, with slightly in different way.
You people can't even agree on which individual religion is NOT a fairy tale! Its like saying we all use the same currency system established by the ancient Lydians, just in different ways. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't worship the same Abrahamic God. You all think Abraham was right about God, but none of you agree on what God wants. I don't trust Abraham nor you, and by God's given right I don't have to... unless God is a tyrant who doesn't like civil freedom. Our founders would disagree, I would trust them 1 million times more strongly then I could even pretend to trust Abraham or you.
Even if this were so, on babies being born atheist, it might not mean that much. Babies are also born incontinent and illiterate too. It seems possible to me, going by some anthropology, that counting past a thousand is also something people may not instinctively know or do. This doesn't tell us the number 1,001 is made up. (And possibly counting past just 20 was not always necessary or natural)
Personally I think atheism can't simply mean ignorance or dogs are atheists, crocodiles are atheists, goldfish are atheist, termites are atheist, etc. Possibly it's more like we're born pre-theist, or pre-atheist, rather than anything.
That's the thing with the word "atheist" it just means... not believing theists. Even the birds in the sky worship God and are fed by Him... or should I say they are actually fed by their endless struggle to find food.
Christmas and Easter are replacements to pagan holidays. Why should a Messianic Jew celebrate Christmas is they don't celebrate the birthdate of their other messiahs? Do Jews even have a holiday for the birth of David?
Is that what a Christian is? not much to a Christian is there? Why the need to accept Jesus as Lord when YHWH was fine being worshiped by himself before? Oh is it that Jesus and YHWH are one and the same? Then YHWH can still be worshiped by himself alone and the Muslims and Jews are right! Oh but God has a new rule that all people must accept his messiah/himself as Lord... oh wait Jews and Muslims already accept him as lord... which means they accept Jesus since they are one and the same!
Did the Messiah command them: Attend Church? I don't remember hearing more legitimate hearsay about that. In fact, I remember Jesus preaching in synagogues.
Are Christians not arrogant when they attack babies as deserving hell fire for not accepting Jesus? Or perhaps children then?
critiques on forums are not a sign of intolerance, in fact, they are usually a sign of wanting dialogue and connection.
Do you know why the descendants of pagans who converted to Jesus', Paul's, etc's religion came to be called Christian? because people that didn't like them started calling them arrogant (the word "Annointed" having connotations of "Arrogant"). Do you know what the Christians were called before they decided to take Paul's advice to accept the title of their religion as Christian? Atheists!
Christmas is the birth of Jesus Christ and Easter is the day Jesus rose.
Both are Christian holidays and have to do with our lord and saviour, Jesus Christ.
Now whether you believe they are pegan holiday or not, it is up to you. For us Christians it is a Christian holiday. Jews and Muslims agree with that too, that's why they do not celebrate the holidays.
Jesus was born and raised as a Jew, so he did attend Jewish temples. However us Christians we split from Judaism and Jewish law, that's why we have our own religion. Most Jews did not accept him so we have nothing to do with their religion, although we respect them and early Christians were Jews.
Where does "Attacking and killing" babies come from?
Religion and faith is something very sensitive for believers. I think that since nonbelievers do not believe in any religion and faith, they should not attack any religion because it makes us getting very sad. We have moral and take it seriosly. It does not mean anything for them, but it really means something for us. Everytime I see a picture of Jesus, pass by a church and see a cross, it makes me both happy and also makes me almost cry.
They see religion as opium of the masses and want to attack religion as an evil tool that doesn't actually do what it proclaims to but instead does other things which are usually not good. That is why you should not be disturbed by their attacks. Some atheists have an emotional need (moral) to "save" people from what they see as dangerous, disruptive addictions. Most Atheists believe in Secularism and the social contract as good religions and have "faith" that theists are wrong since they haven't seen all the evidence. Atheists probably get sensitive too sometimes.
Christmas is the birth of Jesus Christ and Easter is the day Jesus rose.
Both are Christian holidays and have to do with our lord and saviour, Jesus Christ.
Now whether you believe they are pegan holiday or not, it is up to you. For us Christians it is a Christian holiday. Jews and Muslims agree with that too, that's why they do not celebrate the holidays.
Jesus was born and raised as a Jew, so he did attend Jewish temples. However us Christians we split from Judaism and Jewish law, that's why we have our own religion. Most Jews did not accept him so we have nothing to do with their religion, although we respect them and early Christians were Jews.
Where does "Attacking and killing" babies come from?
Peace.
I don't believe they are pagan holidays. they most certainly are Christian holidays except perhaps that Easter is the name of a pagan goddess who was celebrated around that time, I read.
Jesus' religion was Judaism, not Christianity. Is this not so? Jesus was a religious Jew and his Jewish followers were Messianic Jews... Jesus' non-Jewish (Gentile) followers were later called Christians. Do you think Jesus wanted people not to follow Jewish law? Jews at that time would have accepted him if he had risen as King and made all the gentile countries pay homage to Israel.
I meant attacking verbally, I don't know about killing babies, or in what context I meant that if I said it, but babies being born atheist are sent by God's rules to hell if they die. Is that not so?
Even if this were so, on babies being born atheist, it might not mean that much. Babies are also born incontinent and illiterate too. It seems possible to me, going by some anthropology, that counting past a thousand is also something people may not instinctively know or do. This doesn't tell us the number 1,001 is made up. (And possibly counting past just 20 was not always necessary or natural)
Personally I think atheism can't simply mean ignorance or dogs are atheists, crocodiles are atheists, goldfish are atheist, termites are atheist, etc. Possibly it's more like we're born pre-theist, or pre-atheist, rather than anything.
Quite true. Atheism simply means 'no god - belief' The lack of belief in a god can as well be through ignorance as through a conscious decision. The fact is that atheism is the natural default and theism (name your own) has to be taught. The case for an innate knowledge of 'god' (name your own) is a shaky one indeed.
This doesn't mean that atheism is right just because it is the natural default - state. Not knowing the world is round is natural ignorance and the global earth has to be taught. It can consciously be rejected as a belief but the non - belief in a round earth is related to the sheer ignorance of it, though the circumstances are so different that one might be forgiven for not seeing the two things as essentially the same. It is true that a baby simply has no idea of a round earth and no idea of a flat one just as it has no idea of god- claims and no idea of the case for rejecting the god -claims.
It is simply a fact that denies theists being able to claim that we are all god - believers until we are taught atheism. In fact is is the other way around. It is simply denying theists a tactical debating point, as well as being true.
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