Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The "this generation shall not pass away before you see the coming of the Son of man..." failed prophesy and has been merely "extended" to this new fad of the end of daze. Using that example, we clearly see how folk will derive anything they want from the bible. All the Daniel weeks are done and dusted except for the last one which is supposed to be the tribulation week of seven years. The coptic way the bible is interpreted where weeks mean 7 years, days are not really 24 hour events etc. Pretty stupid book when it was supposed to be divinely inspired. Time cycles have been observed and recorded for yonks and the editors could not even amend the texts to say what they are meant to say.
Oh well, we have about 3 weeks till the ende ov teh wurlde 21 Dec and then they will have to sit down and invent another interpretation to keep the flock fleeced. Making crap up as you go along is par for the course in wooistan.
You can't just take a bad translation of a prophecy and consider the prophecy to be "bad."
For instance, in the verse you quote above there are some interesting words such as "may" and "should" in a more proper translation:
Mat 24:34 Verily, I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by till all these things should be occurring."
“UNDER no circumstances should you be finishing the cities of Israel till the Son of Mankind may be coming” (Matt.10:23b). “Verily I am saying to you that there are some of those standing here who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the Son of Mankind coming in His kingdom” (Matt.16:28; cp Luke 9:27). “Verily I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by till all these things should be occurring” (Matt.24:34; cp Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32). “For still how very little, He Who is coming will be arriving and not delaying” (Heb.10:37). “Little children, it is the last hour, and, according as you hear that the antichrist is coming, now also there have come to be many antichrists, whence we know that it is the last hour” (1 John 2:18).
There is going to be a resurrection of the just and unjust according to Daniel's prophecy (ancient warrior can't claim that has already been fulfilled! nyuk! nyuk!). It is my understanding that that generation Jesus spoke to concerning the above verses will indeed see all these things occur after they have been resurrected. Some of them will be put to death by the man of lawlessness but some, according to Jesus, will still be living when they see all these things happen.
You can't just take a bad translation of a prophecy and consider the prophecy to be "bad."
For instance, in the verse you quote above there are some interesting words such as "may" and "should" in a more proper translation:
Mat 24:34 Verily, I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by till all these things should be occurring."
“UNDER no circumstances should you be finishing the cities of Israel till the Son of Mankind may be coming” (Matt.10:23b). “Verily I am saying to you that there are some of those standing here who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the Son of Mankind coming in His kingdom” (Matt.16:28; cp Luke 9:27). “Verily I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by till all these things should be occurring” (Matt.24:34; cp Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32). “For still how very little, He Who is coming will be arriving and not delaying” (Heb.10:37). “Little children, it is the last hour, and, according as you hear that the antichrist is coming, now also there have come to be many antichrists, whence we know that it is the last hour” (1 John 2:18).
There is going to be a resurrection of the just and unjust according to Daniel's prophecy (ancient warrior can't claim that has already been fulfilled! nyuk! nyuk!). It is my understanding that that generation Jesus spoke to concerning the above verses will indeed see all these things occur after they have been resurrected. Some of them will be put to death by the man of lawlessness but some, according to Jesus, will still be living when they see all these things happen.
RESPONSE:
>>It is my understanding that that generation Jesus spoke to concerning the above verses will indeed see all these things occur after they have been resurrected<<
Isn't that like saying that although Jesus did not fulfill all the OT prophecies of the messiah, he will fulfuill them during his Second Coming?
The end time prophecies were clearly directed to members of Jesus' generation who were stilll alive. The "after they have been resurrected" attempt to avoid the obvious doesn't work.
It's like my friend Ralph saying that he's really the messiah but we have to wait for his miracles until after the resurrection. Do some people actully believe this kind of claim?
>>There is no scholar in his right mind that would suggest that the book of Daniel was written after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ or after the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, both of which are mentioned in Daniel 9:26.<<
RESPONSE:
Daniel 9:26
“After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing, and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its* end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed” [NRSV]
Errors:
(1) >>An anointed one…<<
This could refer to any king. Jesus was never anointed as king.
"Annointing the King - The most important use of mashah is in connection with certain sacred persons. The principal and oldest of these is the king, who was anointed from the earliest times (Judges, ix. 8, 15; I Sam. ix. 16, x. 1; II Sam. xix. 10; I Kings, i. 39, 45; II Kings, ix. 3, 6, xi. 12). So exclusively was Anointing reserved for the king in this period that "the Lord's anointed" became a synonym for king (I Sam. xii. 3, 5, xxvi. 11; II Sam. i. 14; Ps. xx. 7). This custom was older than the Hebrews. El-Amarna Tablet No. 37 tells of the anointing of a king. [Jewish Encyclopedia] ANOINTING - JewishEncyclopedia.com.
(2) >>destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood,<<
Destruction of the Temple occurred in 70 AD. Destruction of Jerusalem occurred in 135 AD.
No “flood” is reported to have occurred at either time.
>>It is my understanding that that generation Jesus spoke to concerning the above verses will indeed see all these things occur after they have been resurrected<<
Quote:
Isn't that like saying that although Jesus did not fulfill all the OT prophecies of the messiah, he will fulfuill them during his Second Coming?
Of course it is exactly like saying that.
When Moses said "The Lord your God will raise up a prophet like unto me. Him shall you hear" it took many many generations until the Lord accomplished what Moses stated. Yet no one considers Moses a false prophet because that prophetic utterance did not take place in his hearer's lifetime.
Quote:
The end time prophecies were clearly directed to members of Jesus' generation who were stilll alive. The "after they have been resurrected" attempt to avoid the obvious doesn't work.
There is no attempt on my part to "avoid the obvious." My position works with the historical viewpoint as shown in the bible as to how prophecy comes to pass.
Quote:
It's like my friend Ralph saying that he's really the messiah but we have to wait for his miracles until after the resurrection. Do some people actully believe this kind of claim?
Yes, of course, some people do. But with the Jews in Jesus' day, they didn't have to wait. Many tens of thousands believed on Him due to raising people from the dead and other magnificent miracles.
“After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing, and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its* end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed” [NRSV]
Errors:
(2) >>destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood,<<
Destruction of the Temple occurred in 70 AD. Destruction of Jerusalem occurred in 135 AD.
No “flood” is reported to have occurred at either time.
Dan 9:26 After the sixty-two sevens, Messiah will be cut off, and there is no adjudication for Him. The city and the holy place shall be laid in ruins with the other governor's coming; then its end is by an overflow, and till the end of the war desolations will be decided."
The "overflow" is an army:
"With a flood - בשׁטף basheṭeph. That is, it shall be like an overflowing flood. The word used here means a “gushing, outpouring,” as of rain, Job_38:25; of a torrent, Pro_27:4; an overflowing, inundation, flood, Psa_32:6; Nah_1:8. Hence, it would appropriately denote the ravages of an army, sweeping everything away. It would be like a sudden inundation, carrying everything before it." (Barne's Notes on the Bible).
When was the final version of Daniel really written?
Mike555 quoted:
“'And when the book of Daniel was shewed him, wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended;' [Antiquities of the Jews, book XI, chapter VIII, section 5]”
However: Josephus wrote Antiquities around 93 or 94 AD. Thus we don’t know how recent the edition of the Book of Daniel which he used was.
(1) “ It must also be remembered that Daniel has been copied and recopied time and again allowing for updates in spelling and perhaps even changes in the wording itself. In comparison to this, the other ancient Assyrian texts we have are often inscriptions in stone and are not copies, thus they have been unaltered grammatically by the passing of time. Yet despite any changes introduced since the original writing, Daniel still resembles the Aramaic of the 5th, 6th and 7th centuries”
(2) “Though traditionally the book was believed to have been written by the Daniel figure of the court tales, today the scholarly consensus is that it is a product of Maccabean times*. Though many evangelical commentators still defend a sixth century date, for mainstream scholarship the issue was settled over a century ago [2] The common view is that the court tales represent a stratum of older, traditional stories, while the visions and final redaction of the work date to the second century BCE”
Eusebius posted:
>>Yes, of course, some people do. But with the Jews in Jesus' day, they didn't have to wait. Many tens of thousands believed on Him due to raising people from the dead and other magnificent miracles.<<
RESPONSE:
Question: If that were really so, why one would expect the story only to be confined to the Gospels written between 70 and 95 AD. Didn’t any of the “many tens of thousands” know how to write?
>>Dan 9:26 After the sixty-two sevens, Messiah will be cut off,<<
I’m afraid the word Messiah is incorrect. Perhaps you should get a more reliable bible, such as the NRSV. The term is “an anointed one” presumably a king.
Daniel 9:26 “After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing, and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.(NRSV)
Apparently, you are using a mistranslation.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 12-05-2012 at 08:01 AM..
Reason: typo
Eusebius posted:
>>Yes, of course, some people do. But with the Jews in Jesus' day, they didn't have to wait. Many tens of thousands believed on Him due to raising people from the dead and other magnificent miracles.<<
RESPONSE:
Question: If that were really so, why one would expect the story only to be confined to the Gospels written between 70 and 95 AD. Didn’t any of the “many tens of thousands” know how to write?
No.
Quote:
>>Dan 9:26 After the sixty-two sevens, Messiah will be cut off,<<
I’m afraid the word Messiah is incorrect. Perhaps you should get a more reliable bible, such as the NRSV. The term is “an anointed one” presumably a king.
Mesiah is the correct term.
Quote:
Daniel 9:26 “After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing, and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.(NRSV)
This is all really hilarious!
bending over backwards to interpret flood as overflow will-not as should not
etc etc.
All of these gymnastics clearly show that the idol scriptures are UNRELIABLE.
And that has never stopped the idolaters! They have used many books and many translations, interpreting the empty idols in many different ways. Nastika! worshiping one's own mind and the chosen ink is radically humorous, hiding such acts behind pretensions!
Many a great number of charlatans have been worshiped by the thousands, including in THIS day and age. These idolaters would DIE for their mistakes! These idolaters would believe quickly, any false resurrections.
Eusebius doesn't even bother to explain himself on the first counter-post! As if unbaked claims bear any merit to self-righteous skeptics. Truly, such biased and empty speculations of correctness help to clarify no one except the already biased who rely on lust-quenching logical fallacies.
*lust as in "a strong-desire"... for immortality and other such (IMHO) unnecessary absurdities.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 12-05-2012 at 11:18 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks - Error #1
