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Richard, if that's all you've got, "You don't know because you weren't there.", then you should call it quits. Many other theists, with much more intellectual arguments, have failed to prove the Great Flood occurred. You're really making your side look silly.
Science has proven the existence of a great flood that to the ancients would have seemed global and that was the way they recorded it...
Yes, I actually have. Many thousands have from Galileo to a schoolboy with a 8 - incher yesterday in his backyard.
But after that and the discovery by Herschel of Uranus, there was supposition of another planet and calculations (perturbations in the orbit of Uranus) seemed to show that it had to be there and (so the story goes - there are queries about it) the position of Neptune was predicted and a telescope was turned to that point and...there it was.
The point is that evidence is often compelling without actual 'Before yore werry eyes' proof of the kind that theist apologists so often demand before they will accept anything that seems to undercut religion (religious claims they will accept as life -changing fact without any evidence and in spite of the evidence very often).
The evidence of past times, if one applies the detective work of the kind that we rely on to secure convictions in crimes when nobody was actually there to see it (that is, almost all of them) is reliable data for looking at the claims of Genesis and finding them utterly without merit, credibility or hisorical reliability.
Call them symbolic or metaphor if you like. Those are merely the same as saying 'not true'.
Now you are trying to laugh your way out of it. We don't mind. The believers are reading these posts and feeling embararsed by you.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
Where?...I've never seen it...And even if I did how do I know it is Saturn?...
Because it has freakin' rings around it . If you won't accept that, then you are welcome to your own solipsistic universe, but don't expect it to have any currency with anyone else.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
Science has already proved that there was an enormous flood in that area that could have possibly been the catalyst for the flood account in Genesis...A flood of such magnitude that those involved in it would have thought the world was being flooded....The problem with fundamentalists is that they believe that the whole bible was written by HaShem and that it is all literal...I think man wrote about what he experienced from his own perspective individually unlike the 613 Commandments that I have no problem believing were transmitted orally from HaShem through Moses to Israel and recorded...Even in the NT common sense tells you that those letters were written by men recording their experiences; the best that the best that they knew how...although I am beginning to suspect that Paul might have been an interloper...
Paul was indeed an interloper and it was he who invented Christianity as we now understand it. The relevance being that, if you believe the OT, you should be thinking of becoming Jewish, because Pauline Christianity is a total distortion of everything that was in the OT.
As I pointed out, even if there was some traditional memory of a local flood as the basis of the one in genesis, it completely fails as a mechanism for a plan of God and in fact undermines the God -claim.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
Scientists and Religionists both have their own agendas...Science has also proved that the Dietary Laws have merit...How did they know this 6000 years ago?...Unicorns are recorded in the bible...Belief in something without empirical evidence just because it was recorded by someone whether it be science or religion is just plain foolish...Even the ten plagues of Egypt have been scientifically proven through objective research...Like I said earlier, do your research...
The only agenda science has is getting at the truth. religionists (and strikingly yourself) has the agenda of trying to make the bible look scientifically 'true' even if thereby you prove the god -claims false. Dietary laws, conceded, but they can be over-interpreted out of context. Hand -washing or keeping crap out of the sacred area is obvious in a time when your hands got dirty in the absence of faucets and running water and it does not admit of some advanced medical knowledge about germs and infection.
I have read some 'rationalisations' of the plagues of Egypt, though they do not convince me in the least - if they were true, like the flood, it means they have a natural explanation and were not God waving a magic wand, thus by trying to make the myths of the OT factual, you are discrediting the god -claims.
And unicorns? It also records the sun standing still, being able to see the whole world from the top of a mountain, a man swallowing fish and another that swallows shekels. These are reasons to disbelieve the Bible rather than believe it. Your tossing in one Bible-science claim after another without explanation will not do.
"Belief in something without empirical evidence just because it was recorded by someone whether it be science or religion is just plain foolish." You are preaching to the converted there, but the fact is that, after discussion, you are likely to find yourself maintaining belief despite the evidence.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-16-2013 at 08:31 AM..
Now you are trying to laugh your way out of it. We don't mind. The believers are reading these posts and feeling embararsed by you.
Because it has freakin' rings around it . If you won't accept that, then you are welcome to your own solipsistic universe, but don't expect it to have any currency with anyone else.
Paul was indeed an interloper and it was he who invented Christianity as we now understand it. The relevance being that, if you believe the OT, you should be thinking of becoming Jewish, because Pauline Christianity is a total distortion of everything that was in the OT.
As I pointed out, even if there was some traditional memory of a local flood as the basis of the one in genesis, it completely fails as a mechanism for a plan of God and in fact undermines the God -claim.
The only agenda science has is getting at the truth. religionists (and strikingly yourself) has the agenda of trying to make the bible look scientifically 'true' even if thereby you prove the god -claims false. Dietary laws, conceded, but they can be over-interpreted out of context. Hand -washing or keeping crap out of the sacred area is obvious in a time when your hands got dirty in the absence of faucets and running water and it does not admit of some advanced medical knowledge about germs and infection.
I have read some 'rationalisations' of the plagues of Egypt, though they do not convince me in the least - if they were true, like the flood, it means they have a natural explanation and were not God waving a magic wand, thus by trying to make the myths of the OT factual, you are discrediting the god -claims.
And unicorns? It also records the sun standing still, being able to see the whole world from the top of a mountain, a man swallowing fish and another that swallows shekels. These are reasons to disbelieve the Bible rather than believe it. Your tossing in one Bible-science claim after another without explanation will not do.
"Belief in something without empirical evidence just because it was recorded by someone whether it be science or religion is just plain foolish." You are preaching to the converted there, but the fact is that, after discussion, you are likely to find yourself maintaining belief despite the evidence.
I am Jewish...Unlike you I have no fear of what is on the other side of the fence...You really need to do more objective!! research for yourself...I look at both sides of the issues objectively...2000 years ago it was fact that current flowed from a positive pole to a negative pole and lightening struck from the sky, today we know different...We now know the whole universe is composed of energy in different forms...We also know we are a colorless universe and the colors we see are reflections of particular substance and that all the other colors are absorbed...Yea, I study the sciences also...Where did the matter come from that made the big bang?...
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. If you won't accept that, then you are welcome to your own solipsistic universe, but don't expect it to have any currency with anyone else. 
