A non-confrontational question for Christians (quote, Christianity, believe, belief)
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Yes. I'm pretty sure I would have became a Christian regardless of whether I was born into a Christian family or not. If I didn't know God I would have been some gang banging street hoodlum or depressed and confused individual on the verge of suicide still looking and seeking for someone or something to care about me. I'm not one of these people on Earth that can take faith in other people like scientist and be okay. I need something higher than me to touch my soul and free me from the negative things and people in the world. If God wasn't my outlet, I would have been gone a long time ago.
Yes. I'm pretty sure I would have became a Christian regardless of whether I was born into a Christian family or not. If I didn't know God I would have been some gang banging street hoodlum or depressed and confused individual on the verge of suicide still looking and seeking for someone or something to care about me. I'm not one of these people on Earth that can take faith in other people like scientist and be okay. I need something higher than me to touch my soul and free me from the negative things and people in the world. If God wasn't my outlet, I would have been gone a long time ago.
I think you're missing the point of the question Allen. I believe the OP means that if you were heavily immersed in another religion such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, ect. from the time you were a little boy, would you just switch to Christianity as an adult if approached by a missionary? At least that's how I'm reading into it.
Were you raised on another religion and converted to Christianity, or did your household have no religion growing up, and you just became a Christian with no other religious influences getting in the way? If you were raised Hindu or Jewish, would you have sought Christianity, or would you have been content? What if you were content with another religion the same way you are with Christianity now? Would you leave that religion for Christianity?
(I am limiting this question to Christians, because they are the only ones that would pro-actively attempt to convert someone who is not seeking another faith.)
I would wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. Islam is at least as aggressive in proselytizing and seeking to convert the "unbelievers" as Christianity is. Truth is, they are probably a tad more active in their missionary efforts than Christians.
Maybe you should go back and read about the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Crusades and then read about the Spanish Inquisition. Think you might change that statement.
Those things happened when Christianity was linked to political/military power. Even within Christianity, Catholic and Protestant links to the "rightness" of political forces were used to bolster support for either side. When those with a thirst for power (or land or some other form of wealth) use Christianity to get people to believe that God wants them to have that power or land or wealth, it no longer resembles what Christianity is supposed to be. I realize the distinction is lost on people who have seen the enemy coming at them with a sword in one hand and a cross in the other, but the distinction must be made.
But--a thinking person must also acknowledge that much of Christianity was spread without the sword in one hand. When it spread outside of political or military power, it was brought by humble travelers who reached out to the poor and disenfranchised and gave them a message of hope and a sense that there was a supreme being that cared about them and that they were part of something larger than the bottom rung of the human-based society in which they lived. Now I know that it's not your belief, ptsum, and I'm not trying to promote any belief here--that is not the point, but that IS the basic message of Christianity and that message, when not linked to might and power, did spread without force in many places over time.
But--a thinking person must also acknowledge that much of Christianity was spread without the sword in one hand. When it spread outside of political or military power, it was brought by humble travelers who reached out to the poor and disenfranchised and gave them a message of hope and a sense that there was a supreme being that cared about them and that they were part of something larger than the bottom rung of the human-based society in which they lived. Now I know that it's not your belief, ptsum, and I'm not trying to promote any belief here--that is not the point, but that IS the basic message of Christianity and that message, when not linked to might and power, did spread without force in many places over time.
I'd essentially go with the above and would just add that Constantine when he did bring the Christian religion into the Empire's fold, gave a tremendous impetus for its growth through imperial support. It really altered its position in the Empire especially politically since the bishops now had a presence in public affairs. This arguably brought on the conversion of the Roman aristocracy and the conflict with paganism since the adherents of the lattter came from a different cultural heritage.
Those things happened when Christianity was linked to political/military power. Even within Christianity, Catholic and Protestant links to the "rightness" of political forces were used to bolster support for either side. When those with a thirst for power (or land or some other form of wealth) use Christianity to get people to believe that God wants them to have that power or land or wealth, it no longer resembles what Christianity is supposed to be. I realize the distinction is lost on people who have seen the enemy coming at them with a sword in one hand and a cross in the other, but the distinction must be made.
But--a thinking person must also acknowledge that much of Christianity was spread without the sword in one hand. When it spread outside of political or military power, it was brought by humble travelers who reached out to the poor and disenfranchised and gave them a message of hope and a sense that there was a supreme being that cared about them and that they were part of something larger than the bottom rung of the human-based society in which they lived. Now I know that it's not your belief, ptsum, and I'm not trying to promote any belief here--that is not the point, but that IS the basic message of Christianity and that message, when not linked to might and power, did spread without force in many places over time.
Well Mightyqueen, let's discuss this a little bit in a civilize manner. For thousands of years my ancestors practiced their own spiritual beliefs, long before Christianity or any other religion came to this land and we're doing just fine with our beliefs, we did not persecute others or try to convert others to our way of believing,our belief was not part of our laws and everyone was free to worship the Creator as they saw fit, we never said there was a right way or a wrong way to worship and honor the Creator. We never fought any wars over that. Now all the sudden we have this newcomer that comes to our land and wants to change our spiritual beliefs and do so by force, if we don't believe the way these newcomers did then they felt it was their right to exterminate us and finally when they have become more numerous than us, they go a step further, they steal our land from us and relegate us to a very small piece of land that very few could survive on and yet we still resisted and survived but that wasn't enough for these newcomers, now they stoled our children and put them in boarding schools and forced them to learn their language and their religion and treated them like dogs or worse. My people were forced off their land for no reason other than greed and bigotry by good Christian people. This is not ancient history, this is history that was done less than 200 years ago and would continued up until the late 1960s. Do you know that Native Americans were not given the right to vote in this country until 1972? Even women got the right to vote before we did, even African Americans did.
Well Mightyqueen, let's discuss this a little bit in a civilize manner. For thousands of years my ancestors practiced their own spiritual beliefs, long before Christianity or any other religion came to this land and we're doing just fine with our beliefs, we did not persecute others or try to convert others to our way of believing,our belief was not part of our laws and everyone was free to worship the Creator as they saw fit, we never said there was a right way or a wrong way to worship and honor the Creator. We never fought any wars over that. Now all the sudden we have this newcomer that comes to our land and wants to change our spiritual beliefs and do so by force, if we don't believe the way these newcomers did then they felt it was their right to exterminate us and finally when they have become more numerous than us, they go a step further, they steal our land from us and relegate us to a very small piece of land that very few could survive on and yet we still resisted and survived but that wasn't enough for these newcomers, now they stoled our children and put them in boarding schools and forced them to learn their language and their religion and treated them like dogs or worse. My people were forced off their land for no reason other than greed and bigotry by good Christian people. This is not ancient history, this is history that was done less than 200 years ago and would continued up until the late 1960s. Do you know that Native Americans were not given the right to vote in this country until 1972? Even women got the right to vote before we did, even African Americans did.
Greed often hides behind such things as religion. Much guilt, IMO, lies with the good Christian people who saw what was being done to the Native Americans and knew it was wrong but did and said nothing. I don't blame your people for rejecting Christianity--that is one of the very real cases I referred to in my post of some people only knowing Christians as the people who came at them with a cross in one hand and a sword (or firearms or items tainted with smallpox) in the other.
I am not disagreeing with you in any way, ptsum. Read the last sentence of my post to which you responded: "Now I know that it's not your belief, ptsum, and I'm not trying to promote any belief here--that is not the point, but that IS the basic message of Christianity and that message, when not linked to might and power, did spread without force in many places over time." My point was that violence and force was not the way Christianity was always spread. The message is not meant to be spread by force. Unfortunately, it is, as you pointed out, exactly the history of what happened here in this land. And it is the reason we must learn from our mistakes and never again allow religion to be part of the power structure/government.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 08-26-2013 at 11:54 AM..
Greed often hides behind such things as religion. Much guilt, IMO, lies with the good Christian people who saw what was being done to the Native Americans and knew it was wrong but did and said nothing. I don't blame your people for rejecting Christianity--that is one of the very real cases I referred to in my post of some people only knowing Christians as the people who came at them with a cross in one hand and a sword (or firearms or items tainted with smallpox) in the other.
I am not disagreeing with you in any way, ptsum. Read the last sentence of my post to which you responded: "Now I know that it's not your belief, ptsum, and I'm not trying to promote any belief here--that is not the point, but that IS the basic message of Christianity and that message, when not linked to might and power, did spread without force in many places over time." My point was that violence and force was not the way Christianity was always spread. The message is not meant to be spread by force. Unfortunately, it is, as you pointed out, exactly the history of what happened here in this land. And it is the reason we must learn from our mistakes and never again allow religion to be part of the power structure/government.
You are one of many millions of people who believe in the Christian religion and it is unfortunate that most of what the outside world sees of Christianity are not more like you, maybe then we could get along a little better and understand each other a little better. It is unfortunate that the "face" of Christianity is an ugly one to the rest of us who do not believe the same as you or others of your religion. Throughout history there seems to be the ugly face of Christianity instead of maybe the true face of it and this is why I personally will never become a member of any type of organized religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam or Judaism or any of the other "isms". I can only speak for myself and my people and we are quite happy with our cultural belief, it might not be right for everyone and I don't claim it to be, but it's right for us. You know, if the original Europeans had only sat down and talked with us and learn more about us originally, things may have been a lot different.
God is the only way through his Son Jesus Christ, I thought this was a non-confrontational thread, I guess some people don't know how to read.end of story.
God is the only way through his Son Jesus Christ, I thought this was a non-confrontational thread, I guess some people don't know how to read.end of story.
Smart people don't believe everything they read. Especially 2000-year-old fairy tales.
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