Christianity/Religion is like a wheelbarrow (salvation, agnostics, worship, service)
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Any evidence. You stated that you had evidence equivalent to the evidence that we use to evaluate whether to fly or not, documentation with valid signatures, safety records, knowledge of how planes fly, successful flights by millions of others. Please show us your equivalent evidence.
Why? You'll just dismiss it. The only person that has to be convinced is me. I'm a college educated, 30-year career in education (retired), middle-aged, father, husband, grandfather, well-adjusted, financially stable man with an IQ of 135, and I believe in God, and His son Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. How can this be?!?
Call me deluded, fundamentalist, hopelessly confused, whatever. I don't care. I was raised by an agnostic father and a Christian mother. My brother and I were brought up in the church (by our mother) from a young age. In our late teens, my brother rejected the church (not necessarily God), and remains ambivelant and inactive, spiritually speaking.
I, on the other hand, experienced God in a real way. Christianity made sense to me. I've been serving the Lord since 1973, and am now serving as a part-time minister. There are millions, just like me. I'm nobody special.
My faith in Christ is nothing like a wheelbarrow or a sack of potatoes. It's who I am.
Any evidence. You stated that you had evidence equivalent to the evidence that we use to evaluate whether to fly or not, documentation with valid signatures, safety records, knowledge of how planes fly, successful flights by millions of others. Please show us your equivalent evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Why? You'll just dismiss it. The only person that has to be convinced is me. I'm a college educated, 30-year career in education (retired), middle-aged, father, husband, grandfather, well-adjusted, financially stable man with an IQ of 135, and I believe in God, and His son Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. How can this be?!?
Yes he will dismiss it, jimmie . . . as he does mine. It is impossible to convince anyone to accept who has not experienced God for themselves. Your faith in God is not in vain . . . though we disagree mightily on the details.
Why? You'll just dismiss it. The only person that has to be convinced is me. I'm a college educated, 30-year career in education (retired), middle-aged, father, husband, grandfather, well-adjusted, financially stable man with an IQ of 135, and I believe in God, and His son Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. How can this be?!?
Call me deluded, fundamentalist, hopelessly confused, whatever. I don't care. I was raised by an agnostic father and a Christian mother. My brother and I were brought up in the church (by our mother) from a young age. In our late teens, my brother rejected the church (not necessarily God), and remains ambivelant and inactive, spiritually speaking.
I, on the other hand, experienced God in a real way. Christianity made sense to me. I've been serving the Lord since 1973, and am now serving as a part-time minister. There are millions, just like me. I'm nobody special.
My faith in Christ is nothing like a wheelbarrow or a sack of potatoes. It's who I am.
That's the typical dodge. If you had the evidence, which I'm sure you don't, I'm sure you'd be willing to provide it. In all honesty, my request was rhetorical since I'm quite aware that you haven't the equivalent evidence. Why you suggested you do, I don't know. Why not simply state that your personal experience is good enough evidence for you, instead of pretending you have objective evidence that could convince others?
I have never questioned your intellect, though I will suggest that you are willfully dismissive of the evidence contrary to what you were raised to accept and believe. My brother is quite similar to you, in that he compartmentalizes his religion to where he dismisses the same evidence out of hand, ignoring his mind's tendency to reasonably assess the empirical evidence. I live in a part of the country where your beliefs are the norm, where people are denied the same privileges as others only because of the religious beliefs of the majority.
Yes he will dismiss it, jimmie . . . as he does mine. It is impossible to convince anyone to accept who has not experienced God for themselves. Your faith in God is not in vain . . . though we disagree mightily on the details.
You not only disagree on the details, you disagree on your definitions and the attributes of God, another example that its unlikely either of your Gods exist, along with the absence of empirical objective evidence.
Why? You'll just dismiss it. The only person that has to be convinced is me. I'm a college educated, 30-year career in education (retired), middle-aged, father, husband, grandfather, well-adjusted, financially stable man with an IQ of 135, and I believe in God, and His son Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. How can this be?!?
Call me deluded, fundamentalist, hopelessly confused, whatever. I don't care. I was raised by an agnostic father and a Christian mother. My brother and I were brought up in the church (by our mother) from a young age. In our late teens, my brother rejected the church (not necessarily God), and remains ambivelant and inactive, spiritually speaking.
I, on the other hand, experienced God in a real way. Christianity made sense to me. I've been serving the Lord since 1973, and am now serving as a part-time minister. There are millions, just likeme. I'm nobody special.
My faith in Christ is nothing like a wheelbarrow or a sack of potatoes. It's who I am.
I agree and feel the same way Jimmy does, as I came to know the Lord in 1998
That's the typical dodge. If you had the evidence, which I'm sure you don't, I'm sure you'd be willing to provide it. In all honesty, my request was rhetorical since I'm quite aware that you haven't the equivalent evidence. Why you suggested you do, I don't know. Why not simply state that your personal experience is good enough evidence for you, instead of pretending you have objective evidence that could convince others?
I have never questioned your intellect, though I will suggest that you are willfully dismissive of the evidence contrary to what you were raised to accept and believe. My brother is quite similar to you, in that he compartmentalizes his religion to where he dismisses the same evidence out of hand, ignoring his mind's tendency to reasonably assess the empirical evidence. I live in a part of the country where your beliefs are the norm, where people are denied the same privileges as others only because of the religious beliefs of the majority.
That's a good question. I'm sure you're aware that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For starters, I would need to see the evidence, evaluate it objectively, and eliminate all other possible natural explanations. If he/she/it exists, I'm sure your God would know what I would require and what would make me believe.
I don't think there is anything. That question to me is like 'what would make you disbelieve in your mom.' We have a relationship, he has a living presence in my life, and the evidence was there once I believed. I do know that it wasn't evidence that brought me to the knowledge of Christ.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Before I was a Christian, I thought they were delusional and kind of silly. So I understand where you're coming from.
That's the typical dodge. If you had the evidence, which I'm sure you don't, I'm sure you'd be willing to provide it. In all honesty, my request was rhetorical since I'm quite aware that you haven't the equivalent evidence. Why you suggested you do, I don't know. Why not simply state that your personal experience is good enough evidence for you, instead of pretending you have objective evidence that could convince others?
When did I suggest I could convince others? The airplane thing? All I meant was, I have my own experiences, people who love me have shared their experiences, I've watched the lives of other believers, I've read of the experiences of historical believers, etc. All these things together have confirmed my beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn
I have never questioned your intellect, though I will suggest that you are willfully dismissive of the evidence contrary to what you were raised to accept and believe. My brother is quite similar to you, in that he compartmentalizes his religion to where he dismisses the same evidence out of hand, ignoring his mind's tendency to reasonably assess the empirical evidence. I live in a part of the country where your beliefs are the norm, where people are denied the same privileges as others only because of the religious beliefs of the majority.
You guys love to elevate yourselves intellectually, over religious folk. I know the evidence you speak of and I still believe in God. There is NO evidence strong enough to change my mind.
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I know the evidence you speak of and I still believe in God. There is NO evidence strong enough to change my mind.
