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Are you even aware of the double-speak that you promote, Vizio????? Your posts are an intellectual embarrassment about which you seem to be completely oblivious.
So explain. How or what tells you that an action is wrong? I keep asking you that. Maybe you're just unable to comprehend the question. Maybe you don't want to.
I'll say it again. This thread is about the OP trying to suggest God is immoral. Neither you, nor anyone else can or has shown a way to judge morality that is anything more than a personal opinion, or a consensus of personal opinions.
Oh sure ... now you're going to suddenly be concerned about keeping the thread on topic. Talk about a cheap tactic.
Yes, God is immoral. PERIOD. I no longer care whether you believe that. Unless you're morally bankrupt, you know that his actions were heinous in the extreme. If morality was stamped onto your heart like you claim, God or not, you would feel revulsion at what God did in the OT ... everything from torturing Job and killing his family for the sake of a stupid bet to committing genocide on the whole of humanity. You damn well KNOW all of that was immoral. But you're so keen on defending your precious God that you'd rather come across as a sociopath than admit even to yourself that the OT god was a monster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
If you can provide an argument to support the OP's claim, bring it on. Until then, I'm not going to be part of taking it further off course than it is.
God's immorality speaks for itself. I don't need to make an argument and neither does the OP. All the proof that is needed can be found on the blood-soaked pages of the OT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Therefore you have no basis for declaring ANYONE to be moral or immoral. Including the writings that one may find in the Bible.
You have no basis, then, either. Your God and Bible do NOT give you any more of a basis than I have. Not until you can prove that your God exists. Yeah, you keep ducking that reality, don't you. We keep throwing this immutable fact at you and you're behaving as though you're in a dodge ball tournament.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
What difference does it make? You can't say it's wrong.
Until you present the evidence for God's existence ...
Neither.
Can.
You.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
What difference does it make? You can't say it's right or wrong.
Until you present the evidence for God's existence ...
Neither.
Can.
You.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
At least in YOUR worldview there isn't.
MY worldview? Apparently even with English being my second language, I can read and comprehend it better than you can. Note what I said ... I said "according to your logic."
Yeah ... YOUR logic. Not mine. YOURS. It is YOUR logic that prevents there ever being justifiable laws against sex with children - because your God never issued any such laws and your Bible never declared sex with children to be a sin. Any moral decree not covered in the Bible - like pedophilia - can never EVER EVER EVER EVER be justified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
It must be miserable to not be able to say anything is right or wrong. I feel sorry for you.
It must be miserable to be trapped and constrained by 3,000 year-old morality and a God that refuses to update his book of laws. Oh well, at least he didn't forget to include in the Bible the important requirement of putting tassles on your cloak. Having sex with children just wasn't all that big of an issue in 1,000 B.C., I'm afraid, and that's what we ... no ... what YOU are stuck with.
My worldview allows us to change morality if and when we realize it needs to be changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
I'm still waiting for you to give me an answer of why you believe you can judge ANYTHING right or wrong.
I'm still waiting for you to prove that your God exists ... or that the Bible is inerrant. I'm even giving you TWO ways to justify your morality yet you can't do either, can you.
Murder is wrong. That's a basic moral truth that is stamped on my heart, in addition to being written in the Bible.
Murder is wrong. Due to our gregarious nature, humanity evolved to shun murder, realizing that no society could exist if murder was acceptable and went unpunished. I guess in that way, it was stamped on my DNA ... considering humanity generally shuns murder even in non-Christian and non-religious societies.
Oh sure ... now you're going to suddenly be concerned about keeping the thread on topic. Talk about a cheap tactic.
Yes, God is immoral. PERIOD. I no longer care whether you believe that. Unless you're morally bankrupt, you know that his actions were heinous in the extreme. If morality was stamped onto your heart like you claim, God or not, you would feel revulsion at what God did in the OT ... everything from torturing Job and killing his family for the sake of a stupid bet to committing genocide on the whole of humanity. You damn well KNOW all of that was immoral. But you're so keen on defending your precious God that you'd rather come across as a sociopath than admit even to yourself that the OT god was a monster.
What tells you that?
Quote:
God's immorality speaks for itself. I don't need to make an argument and neither does the OP. All the proof that is needed can be found on the blood-soaked pages of the OT.
Yah...you really do need to make the argument. To just assume something is called "begging the question". It's a logical fallacy.
Quote:
You have no basis, then, either. Your God and Bible do NOT give you any more of a basis than I have. Not until you can prove that your God exists. Yeah, you keep ducking that reality, don't you. We keep throwing this immutable fact at you and you're behaving as though you're in a dodge ball tournament.
OK. If you believe that, great. But I'm still waiting for you to come up with the question of why something is immoral?
Quote:
MY worldview? Apparently even with English being my second language, I can read and comprehend it better than you can. Note what I said ... I said "according to your logic."
Yeah ... YOUR logic. Not mine. YOURS. It is YOUR logic that prevents there ever being justifiable laws against sex with children - because your God never issued any such laws and your Bible never declared sex with children to be a sin. Any moral decree not covered in the Bible - like pedophilia - can never EVER EVER EVER EVER be justified.
I've never suggested that we ONLY base our legal system off of the Biblical commands. But again...the fact remains that just because you consider something wrong....no one else is required to agree with you.
Quote:
It must be miserable to be trapped and constrained by 3,000 year-old morality and a God that refuses to update his book of laws. Oh well, at least he didn't forget to include in the Bible the important requirement of putting tassles on your cloak. Having sex with children just wasn't all that big of an issue in 1,000 B.C., I'm afraid, and that's what we ... no ... what YOU are stuck with.
My worldview allows us to change morality if and when we realize it needs to be changed.
Actually, we are not required to adhere to 3000 year old laws. Those laws were given to a specific set o people at a specific time. I'm not one of them.
Quote:
I'm still waiting for you to prove that your God exists ... or that the Bible is inerrant. I'm even giving you TWO ways to justify your morality yet you can't do either, can you.
Tick tock.
"Anticipay-yay-tion, it's making me wait ..."
That's a different thread. I'd be happy to explain the cosmological argument for you. But it's not a part of this thread.
Quote:
Murder is wrong. Due to our gregarious nature, humanity evolved to shun murder, realizing that no society could exist if murder was acceptable and went unpunished. I guess in that way, it was stamped on my DNA ... considering humanity generally shuns murder even in non-Christian and non-religious societies.
Glad you FINALLY agree that there is such a thing as objective morality. You think it just got there by random happenstance...but I believe God programmed it that way.
Whoa. Hold.the.phone. You actually used the words "I believe". You rarely do that.
Congratulations. Well done. That's how it works. What you believe is what you believe. And just because YOU believe something that doesn't make it fact.
Why do you feel your sensibilities and life experience can tell you that?
Your questions are getting sillier and sillier.
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