Christian morality: an atheist's point of view (Muslims, believer, gays)
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Yes . . . the very concept of morality obtains its legitimacy from the existence of God who establishes a PURPOSE for our existence. But it is that PURPOSE for our existence and NOT the whims or caprice of God that determine morality. In other words, Vizio . . . morality is NOT whatever God supposedly told our ignorant ancestors through inspiration. It ultimately comes down to discerning with sincere and reasoned effort what the PURPOSE of human existence IS and those things that are constructive to that purpose.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
So the concept of morality comes from God...but it's whatever people decide?
Try to pay closer attention, Vizio. The concept of morality attains legitimacy ONLY if there is a God who establishes a PURPOSE for our existence. Accidents can have preferred mores but no morality, per se. Morality ensues from the existence of our PURPOSE and is tied directly to it . . . NOT to any caprice or whims of ANY entity. Morality is absolute and never contradictory because it is EITHER constructive or destructive to our purpose. Everything else has nothing to do with morality.
Try to pay closer attention, Vizio. The concept of morality attains legitimacy ONLY if there is a God who establishes a PURPOSE for our existence.
Here we differ. I do not accept the existence of god, yet I do recognize morality. I have also proposed a system and origin for this that has nothing to do with god.
Do you know of any authoritative source of morality on earth?
But it doesn't work. We've demonstrated that. We've shown that different societies can have different systems of morality.
What do you mean by different systems of morality? If we seek God we will all come the same conclusion.
There is an occurrence in nature that has been observed. Morphogenic learning. While watching one primate species in two places one family group was beginning to use tools. Within days other family groups that had no contact started emulating the same behavior. I would classify this as supernatural. But not beyond explanation.
Don't forget Al Qaeda, ISIS, the IRA, the KKK and many others.
Yeah, I've been alerting people to the fascistic, anti-freedom nature of religion since I first logged in here, and before that, as well. Nice to know that some folks are getting it - especially if they are Christian. In fact, any changes will have to come from the Christian community. I just wish there were more people preaching freedom rather than de facto world conquest.
I see your argument. It's organized religion you are differing with Right?
Its really simple. Empty your cup and look at what your aware of. The world has Good and Evil. In you heart you despise Evil. None can deny this. So that makes us feel alienated to the world.
While aware focus on the Good. Everything there is from God. Your awareness is like the iris of an eye. If you lose focus things become blurry. Also because the cup is to cloudy like a cataract.
Try to pay closer attention, Vizio. The concept of morality attains legitimacy ONLY if there is a God who establishes a PURPOSE for our existence. Accidents can have preferred mores but no morality, per se. Morality ensues from the existence of our PURPOSE and is tied directly to it . . . NOT to any caprice or whims of ANY entity. Morality is absolute and never contradictory because it is EITHER constructive or destructive to our purpose. Everything else has nothing to do with morality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Here we differ. I do not accept the existence of god, yet I do recognize morality. I have also proposed a system and origin for this that has nothing to do with god.
Cosmic accidents without a PURPOSE for existing can distinguish among their behaviors and develop mores by consensus (or any other method they choose or can get away with) . . . but the irrelevance of their existence provides no ABSOLUTE basis for making those distinctions. It is caprice. Whether or not they seek to annihilate themselves or to prosper is irrelevant since they have no reason to even exist in the first place. With a purpose for existence an absolute standard is available based on its impact on that PURPOSE.
When I came to the Lord I had a new realization never before experienced .
I realized God's presents every where.
It wasn't a physical thing, it was simply a knowing ,like knowing when your happy or sad.
All my life, "This knowing" has been a tool that helps me behave, not just the superficial responsibilities of behavior among men, but grew to a seeking and learning God's will through the Holy Spirit Jesus provided me .
I have known many in this world that simply choose not to want to believe in God, the list of excuses are endless.
Though I share miracles you don't believe . I expect that should some miracle happen in your life you would still find and excuse.
Let me be quite blunt .
There will come time God will no longer strive with man, and your saying to your self , well finally .
When I came to the Lord I had a new realization never before experienced .
I realized God's presents every where.
It wasn't a physical thing, it was simply a knowing ,like knowing when your happy or sad.
All my life, "This knowing" has been a tool that helps me behave, not just the superficial responsibilities of behavior among men, but grew to a seeking and learning God's will through the Holy Spirit Jesus provided me .
I have known many in this world that simply choose not to want to believe in God, the list of excuses are endless.
Though I share miracles you don't believe . I expect that should some miracle happen in your life you would still find and excuse.
Let me be quite blunt .
There will come time God will no longer strive with man, and your saying to your self , well finally .
There is hope, They are all here. If they Didn't want to hear they would walk away.
Amen,
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled
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While aware focus on the Good. Everything there is from God. Your awareness is like the iris of an eye. If you lose focus things become blurry. Also because the cup is to cloudy like a cataract.
You stating that everything is from god does not make it so. Why would you presume a conclusion?
Cosmic accidents without a PURPOSE for existing can distinguish among their behaviors and develop mores by consensus (or any other method they choose or can get away with) . . . but the irrelevance of their existence provides no ABSOLUTE basis for making those distinctions. It is caprice. Whether or not they seek to annihilate themselves or to prosper is irrelevant since they have no reason to even exist in the first place. With a purpose for existence an absolute standard is available based on its impact on that PURPOSE.
Ok. Sure. I will grant you that.
But it makes no difference. We were not created, there is no purpose, and no objective morality. There is just us. You, me, and the other people currently on this planet. What we do matters to each other. That is enough. We don't need any more.
Yes, in a million years it won't matter one little bit what any of us does today. But what we do today matters tomorrow. It matters to your neighbors, your friends and your family.
Simply wishing that there was a purpose and a reason for being doesn't make that come true.
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