Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see what are common necessities and what are luxuries. You can start by simplying saying a grocery store can not discriminate. If someone says they have a religious objection to a selling a particular item the reevaluate the law. Why does it have to be all or nothing in your world?
Why do you feel the need to point this out over and over again? I get it, they violated the law. I am arguing from a moral perspective. If you are going to use a legal argument for morality then you are saying the same action is moral in one state, but immoral in Oregon.
The women are not completely innocent in this case. They started this mess by going on the company's facebook and slamming them in a review. While I don't think it was right to put out their addresses, I think the baker just felt like putting it right back on them by posting their legal complaint on facebook which happened to have their addresses. I don't see any evidence that they posted this out of malice or asked people to harrass these women.
From what I read so far in the court ruling, the rhetoric comes off extremely biased towards the gay couple going into great deal about their emotions and feelings instead of just reporting the facts. No surprise that the owners got punished with a overblown fine.
At no time would I retaliate against an unhappy customer. It is not good business.
I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see what are common necessities and what are luxuries. You can start by simplying saying a grocery store can not discriminate. If someone says they have a religious objection to a selling a particular item the reevaluate the law. Why does it have to be all or nothing in your world?
.
Do you realize how many items grocery stores sell that are anything but necessities?
I don't think you want to go there especially since (borrowing from another argument of yours that you think is important) do you realize how much it would cost to set up and then constantly revise the lists of these things?
More than the couple of pennies it might cost you to amend a few pronouns of the civil marriage rights laws.
Do you realize how many items grocery stores sell that are anything but necessities?
I don't think you want to go there especially since (borrowing from another argument of yours that you think is important) do you realize how much it would cost to set up and then constantly revise the lists of these things?
More than the couple of pennies it might cost you to amend a few pronouns of the civil marriage rights laws.
And what are the odds someone is going to claim violation of freedom of religion for forcing them to sell something like car wax to a gay customer? Not realistic. If the products are the problem then they shouldn't work there.
So then they deserve the fine. End of story. It's pretty simple.
Except it was an overblown fine from a biased government showing conflict of interest. The guy who determined the fine was even attending gay pride events. If he had been attending anti-homosexual church groups, gay supporters would be going ballistic.
I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see what are common necessities and what are luxuries. You can start by simplying saying a grocery store can not discriminate. If someone says they have a religious objection to a selling a particular item the reevaluate the law. Why does it have to be all or nothing in your world?
Why do you feel the need to point this out over and over again? I get it, they violated the law. I am arguing from a moral perspective. If you are going to use a legal argument for morality then you are saying the same action is moral in one state, but immoral in Oregon.
The women are not completely innocent in this case. They started this mess by going on the company's facebook and slamming them in a review. While I don't think it was right to put out their addresses, I think the baker just felt like putting it right back on them by posting their legal complaint on facebook which happened to have their addresses. I don't see any evidence that they posted this out of malice or asked people to harrass these women.
From what I read so far in the court ruling, the rhetoric comes off extremely biased towards the gay couple going into great deal about their emotions and feelings instead of just reporting the facts. No surprise that the owners got punished with a overblown fine.
Right if you do not qualify what is a necessaity and what is not then you must specifiy who gets to decide that. Is cat food a necessity as one can live without a cat, but is it a life worth living without a cat? Your opinion, my opinion, the cat lady's opinion or the guy down the street who shoots cats on sight?
As far as the judgement goes, it details the suffering that the women endured. You and I might agree or disagree that there was any suffering and as neither of interviewed these women nether of us know. The one woman was judged to be exaggerating her claim and was awarded less than the woman who went to the store.
We cannot base our intrerpetration of laws based on morals as whose morals do we use. For example those religious people who do not take their children to a doctor and then children die from a very treatable disease. They think they are being moral by praying for health instead of getting help. Do we use their morality? Is it moral that religious daycares in some states have no restrictions on who can work there? Do we set speed limits based on morality? Would you allow honour killings, stoning of adultresses or burning of witches? If a person gets to use their own morality to decide if they will follow a law or not why even have laws?
If the baker lived in a state that did not prohibit discrimination against sexual orientation he would have been within his rights to do so from the point of view of the law. I think that would be immoral to do so but I certainly would not be claiming he should be charged for discrimination as it would be legal. You would think he was moral for discrimination on that basis. The customer being discriminated against would likely think it was immoral. Whose morality wins? That is why we have laws and enforce the laws based on the laws and not on your or mine morality.
Except it was an overblown fine from a biased government showing conflict of interest. The guy who determined the fine was even attending gay pride events. If he had been attending anti-homosexual church groups, gay supporters would be going ballistic.
Actually as a person who decides discrimination cases he probably attends many functions involving groups who face discrimination such as women's groups, black groups asian communities and groups representing the disable. He more than likely does not attend KKK or other anti groups either. He may even attend many church functions too as well as those of other religions. Attending an anti gay group would likely be in conflict of interest but attending a group claiming traditional relgious rights would not. There is a difference that you may not see.
Besides your last sentence is just your assumption much like the claim that the people here were outraged when it was mentioned that the two women were threatened when in fact this outrage was reflected by those outraged people not even mentioning it.
And it was not a fine but a judgement for damages. There is a major difference, one that has been pointed out to both you and Vizio too often for you to not be aware of.
Except it was an overblown fine from a biased government showing conflict of interest. The guy who determined the fine was even attending gay pride events. If he had been attending anti-homosexual church groups, gay supporters would be going ballistic.
So now the judgement (not fine) was justified. You're just angry about the amount now, which is pretty arbitrary.
Now, if this guy were in town, I would give him all of my business: ‘You Are Being a Nazi': Homosexual Baker Blasts Those ‘Bullying’ Christians to Make ‘Gay Wedding’ Cakes | Christian News Network Know that I would not shop at a business that had a sign in the window professing that they would not serve a person that was gay, black, male, female, disabled, etc. but at the same time, I respect the right of those with religious beliefs that don't want to be a part of a ceremony endorsing something which they find sinful. Respect would go a long way in this issue.
For those that are gay/homosexual, whatever you would like to be addressed as, I am sorry that you have these militants acting out like they are. I have known people that were gay and they never discussed the subject with me or tried to make out with their partner in front of me and I did likewise by not discussing sexuality with them or making out with my husband in their presence. Had they wished to discuss, we wouldn't have been associated very long.
It comes down to whatever you feel in your heart but the minute you insist on stampeding my beliefs, you'll open yourself up to my defending them, fiercely.
Everyone is well aware here of my beliefs and when they are attacked, expect me to show up and not only my beliefs but when you insist on trying to shut people up who oppose your view on anything, expect me to show up for that too. And, always remember and never forget that when you use personal attacks, you show you are defeated because that is all you have which is nothing!
Everyone here is a faceless and nameless entity whose thoughts and opinions do not sway me in the slightest.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger so bring it on!
Now, if this guy were in town, I would give him all of my business: ‘You Are Being a Nazi': Homosexual Baker Blasts Those ‘Bullying’ Christians to Make ‘Gay Wedding’ Cakes | Christian News Network Know that I would not shop at a business that had a sign in the window professing that they would not serve a person that was gay, black, male, female, disabled, etc. but at the same time, I respect the right of those with religious beliefs that don't want to be a part of a ceremony endorsing something which they find sinful. Respect would go a long way in this issue.
For those that are gay/homosexual, whatever you would like to be addressed as, I am sorry that you have these militants acting out like they are. I have known people that were gay and they never discussed the subject with me or tried to make out with their partner in front of me and I did likewise by not discussing sexuality with them or making out with my husband in their presence. Had they wished to discuss, we wouldn't have been associated very long.
It comes down to whatever you feel in your heart but the minute you insist on stampeding my beliefs, you'll open yourself up to my defending them, fiercely.
Everyone is well aware here of my beliefs and when they are attacked, expect me to show up and not only my beliefs but when you insist on trying to shut people up who oppose your view on anything, expect me to show up for that too. And, always remember and never forget that when you use personal attacks, you show you are defeated because that is all you have which is nothing!
Everyone here is a faceless and nameless entity whose thoughts and opinions do not sway me in the slightest.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger so bring it on!
I agree 100% that respect goes a long way.
But as a business owner, you are legally not allowed to discriminate, regardless of your personal beliefs.
If the baker offers wedding cakes, they must offer wedding cakes to white people, black people, brown people, purple people, straight people, gay people, old people, and young people.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
