Has religion and the concept of god outlived it's usefulness? (atheist, abortion)
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we need to control the masses. Also, that is only one component to religion and that is why we need separation of church and state. "we" control ourselves, not any one belief system alone should ever have that much power.
a higher being is not silly. In fact claiming we are not part of a higher order system goes against observation. so now what?
Dyeing for love, compassion, and understand is ok. There are many things that gnaw at a man's gut more than death. "oppression" and forcing a belief system on others is one of them. Even of the belief system is "atheism".
"Cut the cord"? kinda. There is no magic. Cut that cord! But helping people to be more than they thought they could be can be magical.
I'm saying that that is religion after you remove all the nonsense. You don't have to call it religion if you don't want, but that'll just leave you doing exact the same thing but without a way to communicate to others about it. It'll be like no longer calling nationalities "nationalities", as if getting rid of the means to refer to something gets rid of the negative aspects of that concept. I see no purpose in such obtuseness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanHalen5150
I hear this a lot, but honestly I am insulted when people say that ethics or ethical living comes from religion.
Well the belief there is no Santa Clause is a religion or belief system with no verifiable basis
Well the belief there are no leprechauns is a religion or belief system with no verifiable basis
Well the belief there is no tooth fairy is a religion or belief system with no verifiable basis
Well the belief there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster is a religion or belief system with no verifiable basis
Well the belief there is no Santa Clause is a religion or belief system with no verifiable basis
Well the belief there are no leprechauns is a religion or belief system with no verifiable basis
Well the belief there is no tooth fairy is a religion or belief system with no verifiable basis
Well the belief there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster is a religion or belief system with no verifiable basis
True, if someone actually believes such. Of course i know of no adult who does so, so ... a meaningless reply.
Unless you are agreeing that a belief that there is no God ranks with a belief in the spaghetti monster?
Nope, we need religion (specifically Christianity). Back in the days when many people actually followed the word of the Bible (as opposed to just going to church or throwing away religion all together), the world was much more peaceful. The Bible gives advice that has nothing to do with God that nonbelievers can apply to their every day lives, but they aren't willing to do that.
Examples of Bible verses that one can apply to their daily lives whether not they're Christians:
"An adulterous woman consumes a man, then wipes her mouth and says, 'What’s wrong with that?'" -Proverbs 30:20
"I also noticed that under the sun there is evil in the courtroom. Yes, even the courts of law are corrupt!" -Ecclesiastes 3:16
"Never slander a worker to the employer, or the person will curse you, and you will pay for it." -Proverbs 30:10
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed. Yes, speak up for the poor and helpless, and see that they get justice." -Proverbs 31:8-9
"Never pay back evil with more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable. Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone." -Romans 12:17-18
"Don’t let evil conquer you, but conquer evil by doing good." -Romans 12:21
"The wise have wealth and luxury, but fools spend whatever they get" -Proverbs 21:20
"Never speak harshly to an older man, but appeal to him respectfully as you would to your own father. Talk to younger men as you would to your own brothers. Treat older women as you would your mother, and treat younger women with all purity as you would your own sisters." -1 Timothy 5:1-2
"Don't let anyone think less of you because you are young Be an example to all believers in what you say, in the way you live, in your love, your faith, and your purity." -1 Timothy 4:12
"Those who control their tongue will have a long life; opening your mouth can ruin everything." -Proverbs 13:3
"A fool is quick-tempered, but a wise person stays calm when insulted." -Proverbs 20:16
"If you ignore criticism, you will end in poverty and disgrace; if you accept correction, you will be honored." - Proverbs 13:18
"A gentle answer deflects anger, but harsh words make tempers flare." -Proverbs 15:1
"Don’t be surprised if you see a poor person being oppressed by the powerful and if justice is being miscarried throughout the land. For every official is under orders from higher up, and matters of justice get lost in red tape and bureaucracy. Even the king milks the land for his own profit! Those who love money will never have enough. How meaningless to think that wealth brings true happiness! The more you have, the more people come to help you spend it. So what good is wealth—except perhaps to watch it slip through your fingers! People who work hard sleep well, whether they eat little or much. But the rich seldom get a good night’s sleep." -Ecclesiastes 5:8-12[/list]
True, if someone actually believes such. Of course i know of no adult who does so, so ... a meaningless reply.
Unless you are agreeing that a belief that there is no God ranks with a belief in the spaghetti monster?
There are millions of Muslims who literally believe Mohammed flew to the moon on a horse. There are millions of people literally think they are drinking and eating the flesh and blood of Jesus (Through transubstantiation), there are people that literally believe if they pray to Jesus/God/Mary their tumors will go away.
DISBELIEF in any or all of these things is equally valid and not a religion.
And no, you got it backwards. A belief that there is no god is the same as a belief there is NO FSM.
edit: A better phrasing, a lack of belief in a god is the same as a lack of belief in the FSM.
Usefulness shows the Op does not understand even concept of faith of nany kind in life. Kind of a convince me what I can't be convinced of for sake of arguing.
We all know, most of us anyway, that the whole concept of religion was developed as a mechanism to control the masses throughout time.
I question the thesis behind your question.
Was religion "developed" with the specific idea of using it to control the masses? Or did religion come into being, and later it was recognized that it could be exploited to help control the masses?
If the former, do you have any evidence to present which shows any religion that came into being as the product of people who were seeking to assert control? Or is your thesis merely an assumption on your part?
Was religion "developed" with the specific idea of using it to control the masses? Or did religion come into being, and later it was recognized that it could be exploited to help control the masses?
If the former, do you have any evidence to present which shows any religion that came into being as the product of people who were seeking to assert control? Or is your thesis merely an assumption on your part?
This! I think the underlying problem with the question is the assumption that religion's existence or pervasiveness was ever about usefulness.
-NoCapo
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