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its seems to me the length of the description is inversely proportional to the truth of the matter. less is usually more. I always do fancy trouts take on things.
I said if you were there when He actually did those things, you would know that God did those miracles.
They were first hand accounts.
Sure according to the claims that were written decades after the life of Jesus.
Here's a short rehash from the video.
And of course there are NO ORIGINAL manuscripts...instead you have copies of copies of copies of ancient Greek manuscripts, which have literally 1000's of discrepancies between these copies, many of which show signs of later interpretation which means that people added passages that later became part of the bible canon. The are whole books of canons like the book of revelations which for 100's of years were not included becasue they were deemed false gospel. There are other whole books like the Shepard of Hermas, which you probably have not heard of...but for centuries it was considered part of the canon and then later jettisoned.
Summary:
Generations of christians lived and died being guided by scriptures that are now deemed BOTH incomplete and mistaken. Yep sounds like evidence you could run an 18 wheeler through.
You keep moving the goal posts. And Atheist is one who has a lack of belief in God/gods or supernatural beings. It is not one who has a lack of sufficient information as to God existing or not. It is just a lack of belief God exists.
I didn't say that's the atheist position (a belief-position...in this case non-belief). I said it is the knowedge position which is agnostic. There are agnostic atheists just as there are agnostic theists. The only ones who are dishonest in my view (whether intentionally or otherwise) are gnostics. Those proclaim absolute knowledge of such concepts.
Or in other words...they are suggesting they have special access to information the rest of us don't have.
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We both agree fully on that.
So you acknowledge your belief-position. Then the next question is whether it is a justified belief position or simply faith.
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I think it has more to do than just creationists.
Maybe. I'm not a Dawkins apologist nor do I need to agree with everything he might contend in order to find common ground where his expertise is worthwhile to acknowledge.
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Sorry, I mean no disrespect but I just had to chuckle when I read the above. I think most theologians and bible students worth their weight would say the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the same God Who created the heavens and earth. Sure the atheist can defend a disbelief in that God just as one can defend a disbelief that we actually went to the moon, which some strenuously defend.
There is no need to defend a disbelief. There is need to justify a belief, in order to establish it's legitimacy for any given topic.
But that said, lack of evidence and demonstration is pretty compelling justification for disbelief.
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I believe the greater harm has been done to humanity with godless societies when communism raised its ugly head and over fifty million died as a result.
The wiser position to take would be agnosticism since no one can know for sure if God exists or not. Remember, Atheism isn't about whether an atheist believes if God exists or not. It is one who has a lack of belief that God exists. Which is the same as saying they are of the opinion God does not exist.
Sorry....communism does not equal atheism. If we go down that road we get ISIS...which is a theocratic entity. Or Hamas. Or Salem witch trials. Or Crusades.
The problem here is not any one particular religion, it is what happens when religions leave the realms of speculation and theology and enter the real business of discovering truth. This is why the scientific method was developed, why philosophy and it's many branches are used (namely epistemology) for understanding how to arrive at rational conclusions, and it's why our country has the separation of church and state as a key principle.
Religion has no rightful claims to having led us out of the bronze age, no claims to our morality structures which don't predate it, and quite frankly has been dragged along kicking and screaming in many cases. It is for these reasons that many people are starting to identify as atheist and being more vocal about it as we seem to be at a crossroads with religiosity.
To be clear. ...I don't care how you spend your Sunday mornings or what you think of my morality. What I do care about is when your religion starts to invade and encroach on things it is not only ill-equipped to speak to, but is flat out harmful and immoral in my view. That's the problem your religion faces in the 21st century. ...not godlessness. Self-righteousness and ignorance.
Religion has no rightful claims to having led us out of the bronze age, no claims to our morality structures which don't predate it, and quite frankly has been dragged along kicking and screaming in many cases. It is for these reasons that many people are starting to identify as atheist and being more vocal about it as we seem to be at a crossroads with religiosity.
To be clear. ...I don't care how you spend your Sunday mornings or what you think of my morality. What I do care about is when your religion starts to invade and encroach on things it is not only ill-equipped to speak to, but is flat out harmful and immoral in my view. That's the problem your religion faces in the 21st century. ...not godlessness. Self-righteousness and ignorance.
I agree with this. when pew runners just believe because somebody told them to means these people need to asses what they are doing in the name of their belief. To rigorously question a pastor/sage is their duty. that pastor must answer to them, it is not the other way around. The pew runner tells the pastor what to teach for the most part. I don't get it, join the group because we said so? really? Or join our belief group because we where the same colors. this aint no gang people, not to the real killin starts anywayz.
To be clear...I don't care how you spend your Sunday mornings or what you think of my morality. What I do care about is when your religion starts to invade and encroach on things it is not only ill-equipped to speak to, but is flat out harmful and immoral in my view. That's the problem your religion faces in the 21st century. ...not godlessness. Self-righteousness and ignorance.
To be clear. ...I don't care how you spend your Sunday mornings or what you think of my morality. What I do care about is when your religion starts to invade and encroach on things it is not only ill-equipped to speak to, but is flat out harmful and immoral in my view. That's the problem your religion faces in the 21st century. ...not godlessness. Self-righteousness and ignorance.
The road goes both ways. Scientists should not be in the business of trying to cram their unbelief down the throats of Christians like Dawkins and other of his cult do. It is harmful to society and makes those scientists look like sociopaths. They need to stick with what they know and let us stick with what we know.
Sure according to the claims that were written decades after the life of Jesus.
There is no verifiable proof the four accounts were written decades after Christ died, so why say it as if it is so?
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Here's a short rehash from the video.
And of course there are NO ORIGINAL manuscripts...instead you have copies of copies of copies of ancient Greek manuscripts, which have literally 1000's of discrepancies between these copies, many of which show signs of later interpretation which means that people added passages that later became part of the bible canon. The are whole books of canons like the book of revelations which for 100's of years were not included becasue they were deemed false gospel. There are other whole books like the Shepard of Hermas, which you probably have not heard of...but for centuries it was considered part of the canon and then later jettisoned.
The Vaticanus 300 A.D., Alexandrinus 400 A.D. and Sinaiticus 300 A.D. That is only around 200 years after John wrote Revelation.
John's Revelation was written around 93 or so A.D. while John was still alive. Acts and the epistles were also 1st hand accounts. That's original enough.
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Summary:
Generations of christians lived and died being guided by scriptures that are now deemed BOTH incomplete and mistaken. Yep sounds like evidence you could run an 18 wheeler through.[/indent]
Thanks for the good chuckle. Of course there are copyist errors in both the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. But the scribes, when they would find a mistake would put the correction in the margin. One can see these corrections in the actual manuscripts. It's no big deal. I do typesetting for a bible publishing company. As careful as I am, when we proof read the text I typeset we find mistakes and correct them.
I haven't read anything here...just the title, so.
It just made me laugh...science...
It reminded me of the frog that lives only in the well, never
having seen the Ocean others have come back to tell him about.
He is using only the tools in the well to prove or disprove the Ocean..
perpetuating the myth that only the well exists...do you see?
Very funny.
Using the tools of the limited to prove or disprove the infinite...do ya get it?
Funny stuff.
So what tools are we supposed to use instead? And more importantly, how do we know that they actually work?
The road goes both ways. Scientists should not be in the business of trying to cram their unbelief down the throats of Christians like Dawkins and other of his cult do. It is harmful to society and makes those scientists look like sociopaths. They need to stick with what they know and let us stick with what we know.
Scientists aren't asking to get equal time at your pulpit so they debunk your superstition.
You are conflating voluntary debates engaged in by theists & atheists in agreed upon settings with indoctrination trying to infiltrate the science classroom. And your perceived persecution is very revealing where you think the better arguments reside.
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