Brochure from Jonestown (disciples, church, atheist, suicide)
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Sharing this with any other cult aficionados. Main page is really good reading:
Threats like these contributed to the ultimate loyalty to Jim Jones. If there was a fear of experiencing a tragic accident simply for thinking a negative thought, chances are that most members would change their thought process to only think positive thoughts towards the Temple. Of course, why it was believed that Jones could cause such events was itself another form of indoctrination
Sharing this with any other cult aficionados. Main page is really good reading:
Threats like these contributed to the ultimate loyalty to Jim Jones. If there was a fear of experiencing a tragic accident simply for thinking a negative thought, chances are that most members would change their thought process to only think positive thoughts towards the Temple. Of course, why it was believed that Jones could cause such events was itself another form of indoctrination
Wow! Thank you. I was 20 and in secretarial school when the mass suicide occurred. The first issue of Newsweek I ever bought was the one with the photos of the hundreds of dead lying all over the ground. I was fascinated by it, but I've been a disaster/mass death junkie since I first learned about Pompeii in childhood.
ETA: Through the article I listened to part of the tape where Jones Is talking them into suicide. It's 45 minutes long, and I only listened to bits of it.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 05-21-2016 at 07:17 PM..
Nothing in the brochure on Jesus Christ , as Jonestown was non Christians , as the leader gave no reference that Jesus was divine and only said the Jesus was a servant of God only ........ so Jonestown cult would have been a form of godliness but no power from the living God through Jesus
Nothing in the brochure on Jesus Christ , as Jonestown was non Christians , as the leader gave no reference that Jesus was divine and only said the Jesus was a servant of God only ........ so Jonestown cult would have been a form of godliness but no power from the living God through Jesus
I get so tired of hearing this "Jim Jones was not a Christian" spin. Jim Jones was first an assistant minister in the Methodist Church at age 21 , then a minister in the Assemblies of God. He then became an ordained minister in the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ and his church was a DoC church.
I get so tired of hearing this "Jim Jones was not a Christian" spin. Jim Jones was first an assistant minister in the Methodist Church at age 21 , then a minister in the Assemblies of God. He then became an ordained minister in the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ and his church was a DoC church.
I get so tired of hearing this "Jim Jones was not a Christian" spin. Jim Jones was first an assistant minister in the Methodist Church at age 21 , then a minister in the Assemblies of God. He then became an ordained minister in the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ and his church was a DoC church.
So how was he not a Christian?
It is just the No True Scotsman fallacy which unfortunately was a fallacy that Paul engaged in, thus giving Christians ever since scriptural support for such circular reasoning.
Fundamentalists attempting to avoid guilt by association aren't even honest enough to say "these people don't represent my view or understanding of Christianity" or "they are not true [insert name of denomination here]" but feel compelled to say they are not Christians period. But then they will, when it's convenient to them, embrace all of Christendom when claiming impressive numbers. In THAT case Christians are a full third of the world population, not the tattered remnant their persecution narrative portrays True Christians as. They will take all that doctrinal error and outright apostasy on and embrace it as their own when it suits their argument. And then turn right around and disavow their "brothers and sisters in Christ" when THAT suits them.
And the maddening part is that they don't see the disconnect themselves, at least outside the more influential clergy. Because this sort of schizophrenic thinking is no different from seeing god as benevolent and jealous and ineffable all at the same time, or seeing god as triune and yet one, or Jesus as both fully god and fully human. These aren't inconsistencies, but simply paradoxes and mysteries, part of their special pleading fallacy where god can break his own rules or behave as he pleases while condemning us for doing the same. Or be un-caused when it's ridiculous to suggest that anything else is. I could go on and on.
A fair and factual point for once judging from the evidence. He was a Marxist and at one point his wife admitted that he was attracted to religion not because of personal belief but to use it as a tool to advance his politics. Not that he wasn't above using religious ideology even after he openly outed himself as not a believer ... acting as a Christ-figure to his followers.
So in this particular case there is some actual evidence that he might Never Have Been One Of You and it may be unfair to suggest that Jones was, either at the time of the mass suicide, or even possibly before, an actual holder of Christian personal beliefs.
What would be far less certain is that he was not at least spouting theist ideology of some kind to manipulate his followers, whether or not he believed it himself. I think he borrowed from various places as needed.
My objection to your deployment of the No True Scotsman fallacy stands but this is not an example of it even if it plays into your narrative.
What would be far less certain is that he was not at least spouting theist ideology of some kind to manipulate his followers, whether or not he believed it himself. I think he borrowed from various places as needed.
Fairly typical behavior for cult leaders. They know how to pick out the weak and malleable and go for their soft spots.
That would do it. Did he?
He did, fairly early on, and nothing in what I read seems to change that. I certainly wouldn't consider him a Christian. It's a shame that so much promise, like the civil rights movements got mixed with an enthusiasm for Stalinist states and increasing cult isolation and dirty tricks to cover up any questions. The fact finding by Ryan was the red light and after an effort to shoot the party leaving at the airstrip, he wiped out all his following.
A cult and bad one, but not a Christian one.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-22-2016 at 10:07 AM..
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Did he?
