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Interesting thread and thanks to the OP for bringing this up.
For the Muslim, the Quran challenges us on this very point... most notably Allah (swt) states that in the Quran there is no doubt and within in all false books one will find contradictions. What I found interesting as I was discovering and challenging my faith is that the stories and morals of the Quran are most similar to the Old Testament/Torah but at the same time the Quran did pick up on critical mistakes that made that book not comply with modern science and reason.
For instance the Quran explains the expansion of the universe in detail, agrees with the Big Bang theory, details that every living thing came from water, describes accurately human embryo development, the earth was round and made very bold predictions which came true (such as the Persians defeating Rome at the lowest part of the land). When describing Jesus (as) the Quran stated that Jesus was not crucified while the narrative of Paul states he did and implies he died within 6 hours, something historically and scientifically inaccurate. Then top on the preservation of Pharoah and the truth was abundantly clear.
Further Islam encompassed *one* being, being completely outside of creation, being the creator and completely infinite with no partners. This explanation satisfied my philosophical reservations.
I just could not conjure up how an illiterate goat herder such as the Prophet Muhammad (saw) could be spot on, on so many major scientific and theological considerations.
To the atheists and agnostics here, I respect your right to your viewpoint. Don't accept Islam because of some sort of emotional whim or conjuring, accept or reject it based on evidence, reason and thought.
In other words, what ever the heck one 'feels' that is the way it is.
I feel a serious connection to nature. I think Neil Degrasse Tyson expresses it well, and close to my perspective in this 3 minute video. The thing is, being part of the whole, and the whole being part of each and everyone of us is scientific fact, as he describes. It is not a 'feeling', it just is.
Interesting thread and thanks to the OP for bringing this up.
For the Muslim, the Quran challenges us on this very point... most notably Allah (swt) states that in the Quran there is no doubt and within in all false books one will find contradictions. What I found interesting as I was discovering and challenging my faith is that the stories and morals of the Quran are most similar to the Old Testament/Torah but at the same time the Quran did pick up on critical mistakes that made that book not comply with modern science and reason.
For instance the Quran explains the expansion of the universe in detail, agrees with the Big Bang theory, details that every living thing came from water, describes accurately human embryo development, the earth was round and made very bold predictions which came true (such as the Persians defeating Rome at the lowest part of the land). When describing Jesus (as) the Quran stated that Jesus was not crucified while the narrative of Paul states he did and implies he died within 6 hours, something historically and scientifically inaccurate. Then top on the preservation of Pharoah and the truth was abundantly clear.
Further Islam encompassed *one* being, being completely outside of creation, being the creator and completely infinite with no partners. This explanation satisfied my philosophical reservations.
I just could not conjure up how an illiterate goat herder such as the Prophet Muhammad (saw) could be spot on, on so many major scientific and theological considerations.
To the atheists and agnostics here, I respect your right to your viewpoint. Don't accept Islam because of some sort of emotional whim or conjuring, accept or reject it based on evidence, reason and thought.
The quran says the moon emits it's own light. Yet it doesn't, because it is just rock-elements like Earth has. There is even these desperate groups of Muslims who will attempt measure the temperature of moonlight by exposing thermometers to it (although such reflected light would not heat anything up significantly, and they are only exposing the thermometers to the energy sucking night sky, rather than shielding them with shade which would not allow as much energy to escape the thermometers). They wrongfully think thus such "experiment" proves that the moon emits a light that cools things rather than adding energy. But they are wholly in the wrong thanks for the political powers that built the idol of the Quran for such unthinking Bibliolaters to stumble into it's trap. Have loyalty and love for the group you really belong to, the better-thinking humans.
The quran says the moon emits it's own light. Yet it doesn't, because it is just rock-elements like Earth has. There is even these desperate groups of Muslims who will attempt measure the temperature of moonlight by exposing thermometers to it (although such reflected light would not heat anything up significantly, and they are only exposing the thermometers to the energy sucking night sky, rather than shielding them with shade which would not allow as much energy to escape the thermometers). They wrongfully think thus such "experiment" proves that the moon emits a light that cools things rather than adding energy. But they are wholly in the wrong thanks for the political powers that built the idol of the Quran for such unthinking Bibliolaters to stumble into it's trap. Have loyalty and love for the group you really belong to, the better-thinking humans.
I know the verse you're referring to. The Quran is speaking to the constellations and human perception of the sky, rather than true root causes of light. Some translations make this confusing.
This is clarified here, "By the sun and its radiant light, and the moon that trails (and reflects) its light. By the day that magnifies and glorifies its brightness." Quran, 91:1-3
These are interesting points however and we should absolutely challenge the veracity of the book.
I know the verse you're referring to. The Quran is speaking to the constellations and human perception of the sky, rather than true root causes of light. Some translations make this confusing.
This is clarified here, "By the sun and its radiant light, and the moon that trails (and reflects) its light. By the day that magnifies and glorifies its brightness." Quran, 91:1-3
These are interesting points however and we should absolutely challenge the veracity of the book.
Yet the Muslims I came upon PROVED contradiction in the Quran, because here you are contradicting their Allah-Given wise interpretation of the Quran. The original Arabic is so vague and mostly lost that you can make it mean anything you want, especially when you disingenuously ADD (parenthesis) to every other line in order to twist the phrasing into something more palatable. A crafted idol, and recrafted too!
The Christians do the same with their Bibles: they claim to truthfully and whole-heartedly know that if you interpret it just right there is no contradiction anywhere. YET this is true of every idol scripture and trickster-genie infested book.
In other words, what ever the heck one 'feels' that is the way it is.
I feel a serious connection to nature. I think Neil Degrasse Tyson expresses it well, and close to my perspective in this 3 minute video. The thing is, being part of the whole, and the whole being part of each and everyone of us is scientific fact, as he describes. It is not a 'feeling', it just is.
Here is the problem. I've explained it many times before.
Just as most possess vision, and can perceive through sight...a few are blind, lack visual ability, and are not able to perceive through sight.
Most possess "God Perception" ability, and can perceive "God"...a few lack that ability, and are not able to perceive "God".
Imagine 200 people standing at a lookout at the rim of the Grand Canyon (to use Tzaphs example)...199 that can see, and 1 that is blind.
Every sighted person will have a different experience, a perception of it that gives them a unique "vibe" from the majestic view...of course, the blind person will see nothing, and thus perceive nothing due to their lack of vision.
Now...would it be reasonable for the blind person to argue all the sighted people should have the same identical perception and "vibe" since they all looked at the same thing from the same spot? Or would that be an unreasonable argument because the blind person did not understand how the perception works due to lacking the ability to experience it?
You, et al, are like the blind person I described...except relative to "God Perception" instead of looking out at a majestic viewscape.
Yet the Muslims I came upon PROVED contradiction in the Quran, because here you are contradicting their Allah-Given wise interpretation of the Quran. The original Arabic is so vague and mostly lost that you can make it mean anything you want, especially when you disingenuously ADD (parenthesis) to every other line in order to twist the phrasing into something more palatable. A crafted idol, and recrafted too!
The Christians do the same with their Bibles: they claim to truthfully and whole-heartedly know that if you interpret it just right there is no contradiction anywhere. YET this is true of every idol scripture and trickster-genie infested book.
Not really. There is no "God given translation" of the Quran, every translation is man-made. I can read the fusha Arabic and am a native speaker, I can tell you there's nothing vague about the description.
Further the verse you're at odds with describes that sun as a lamp which illuminates light and the moon as just having light. Then the verse I quoted substantiates that fact.
Again I'll reiterate as well, challenges should and can be made. However lowering ourselves to accusations of dishonesty and distortion upon the retort will get us nowhere.
Nothing rare about it. One Creator that made us all is standard fare in wisdom traditions. And no it is not a philosophy it is a way of life for me that permeates every part of my daily life. It is very traditional religion, with prayer and blessings and services the whole nine yards. Nothing rare about that either. I am loyal in the sense of not practicing other religions.
I am Jewish. Judaism recognizes other paths to the Divine as valid. For this reason Judaism does not seek converts (it actively discourages converting), and forbids proselytizing.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-17-2017 at 06:29 AM..
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