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"The bible is not our authority"
"But we quote it a lot"
" Because it contains truth"
"Some passages are truth some are not"
"My meeting with God matches the truth described in the bible"
"The bible which we quote a lot"
"But we don't follow the bible"
"Except for the true parts"
yes, exactly.
traz, its like people. They may not be your boss, in fact they may be your workers, but you listen to them and maybe even steal a phrase or two from them because are good ideas.
whats the point you are trying to make? is your point that the bible is only all of it or none of it?
this is just an evasion of my posts. tis ok trans these thing can get tiring cant they.
Be well my friend.
That is what I call shouting "I win" after posting stuff that can't be addressed other than as I did - you have it all wrong about atheism, and until you are willing to lean about atheists and atheism, there is no grounds for discussion. And your attacks on atheism do nothing whatsoever to address the 'learning -curve' aspect of Mystic's hypothesis.
And I addressed all your posts, though you didn't very much address any of mine. You tried to support Mystic by referring to the Bible being written by different people. I showed how that supported my human writing argument and this undermined Mystic's divine curriculum idea. Since then you haven't addressed the point but tried to win by default through trying to discredit atheist -thinking.
Mystic slapped down his claim to being right through divine inspiration and (as he said) others being wrong because they don't listen to the Holy Spirit.
If you think that is an answer that you can rely on, you really need to go back to the drawing -board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Tza I mentioned 2 different types, if you will, of religion. the fundamental and the militant fundamental. The militant fundamental mind set is the one that teaches we must comform or else. It is the same mind set that set the crusades in motion. so yes that type of religion sucks. IMO people should be able to worship God in whatever manner they choose and should not be strong armed into believing things.
Has it not ever occurred to you that what you are doing is claiming a win without argument through accusing one side of bias.
You may have gone dows the humanist road enough that conformity doesn't sit well with you, but that is more to do with doing what you like rather than obeying God.
And it's the easiest thing in the woirl to claim that you (or someone whose line you like) is being inspired and the fundamentalist (so it follows) are not.
But I have to reiterate that that I haven't seen anything but plonking claims of being Right and the others being wrong, and deprecating their views as biased. I haven't seen anything that substantiates this at all, other than trying to wave away science and logic so it doesn't get in the way of the faith -claim.
Can't you see that you faith in what you think is based really on nothing but Faith in what you think - and if not inspired truth from God I have no idea what is the basis of being right and Fundamentalists or Bible -literalists wrong.
That is what I call shouting "I win" after posting stuff that can't be addressed other than as I did - you have it all wrong about atheism, and until you are willing to lean about atheists and atheism, there is no grounds for discussion. And your attacks on atheism do nothing whatsoever to address the 'learning -curve' aspect of Mystic's hypothesis.
And I addressed all your posts, though you didn't very much address any of mine. You tried to support Mystic by referring to the Bible being written by different people. I showed how that supported my human writing argument and this undermined Mystic's divine curriculum idea. Since then you haven't addressed the point but tried to win by default through trying to discredit atheist -thinking.
You read into what I said trans. I never attacked atheism or tried to discredit them. I spoke on the fundamental mind set of theism and atheism. How is that an attack on atheists?
Perhaps the OP has already answered my question and I simply didn't see his response in the 80 pages or so of responses...but why does he think Christians believe in magic?
Perhaps the OP has already answered my question and I simply didn't see his response in the 80 pages or so of responses...but why does he think Christians believe in magic?
Do you believe Jesus walked on water and fed thousands with a couple of fish and some bread? How about raising Lazarus? How about dying himself and then feeling better a couple of days later and going up into heaven?
"The bible is not our authority"
"But we quote it a lot"
" Because it contains truth"
"Some passages are truth some are not"
"My meeting with God matches the truth described in the bible"
"The bible which we quote a lot"
"But we don't follow the bible" "Except for the true parts"
"Some parts are literal some parts are myth"
Your path is your path and I am not criticizing it. It is a valid path to God. I am just showing you how it sounds to readers.
What part of The Bible is not an authority in its own right are you having trouble with? It isn't about follwing the Bible in ANY case, it is about following the truth revealed by the Spirit as verified by the very nature OF that Spirit WHEREVER it is found. Why is this so hard?
Last edited by nateswift; 07-05-2017 at 10:46 AM..
You read into what I said trans. I never attacked atheism or tried to discredit them. I spoke on the fundamental mind set of theism and atheism. How is that an attack on atheists?
I beg you pardon? Your last few posts were attacking my thinking by attacking my being an atheist. I only referred to atheist to avoid making it personal.
"Fundamentalist in any field whether it be in religion or the scientific field or atheism all have in common one thing. To the Christian fundamentalist the bible is the only standard of all truth, to the fundamentalist sciences, science is the only standard of truth and the fundamental atheist only follows the fundamentalist sciences as the only standard of truth and each camp take everything in the bible literally. "
While you denounce fundamentalism, you accuse science and atheismn of being 'fundamentalist'. And what was the point of that is you were not criticizing my referring to science as a basis for reasoning and me for being an atheist? Do you think nobody here can see your wriggling?
And I have to say again, I would love to put you straight on..wel, almost every aspect of science and atheism as regards rationale, worldview and methods, of which you seem to have no understanding.
Now, I know you are smart, after discussing Tacitus and James, I knew that. But I also know that you are reluctant to ever admit being wrong about any view which substantially undermines your belief in the Bible as reliable. You prefer to shift to some other matter. That's wriggling', too.
I would love to go on a dissertation on theist -think, but I'll save it. But just observe because it was discussed earlier on the thread about how some Christians who discard any part of the bible they either don't like or feel they can't make a case for, seem to pride themselves on how Reasonable they are, compared to the ones who believe talking snakes and Shekel -eating fishes, a floating zoo and and a mobile star (as is in the NT, not watered down to a conjunction of planets or a supernova, timed billions of years ago to get its' retina image to earth precisely on midnight, "0" B.C) and yet they are just as unreasonable as the fundamentalist as they fight tooth and nail to keep the sermon on the Mount, the transfiguration and the resurrection any way they can.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-05-2017 at 11:16 AM..
Trans my reasons for seeing the mind of Christ come from purely the study of the scriptures. I had no awakening like Mystic did and yet we came to the same conclusion. The mind of Christ is that which we need to understand the Father.
I have posted these thoughts before but you might not have read them to see how I came to my understanding so will post some of my thoughts on where I am coming from.
According to the Jewish study Bible pages*1835*& 1838
The Jews interpreted scripture by using scripture, thus they turned the scripture over and over to find new truths from examining the scriptures and reordering the old scriptures. Thus when they came upon problem scriptures they would translate those scripture according to their own interpretation and took sides in theological and legal controversies, expanded the narrative and legal material all the while purporting to merely convey the meaning of the text they translated.
Thus in ancient times it was the responsibility of the translator not to only translate the text, but to render it comprehensible to those who could not read the sacred writing themselves. Thus many of their interpretation of the scripture became a part of the scriptures.
Now Jeremiah 8:8 tells us of the lying pen of the scribes.
A few different translations
King James version
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Darby bible translation
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? Behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes hath made it falsehood.
World English bible
How do you say, We are wise, and the law of Yahweh is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has worked falsely.
Young's literal translation
How do ye say, We are wise, And the law of Jehovah is with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.
Now if this is all so then one must need something to separate what is of man and what is of God.
This is where the Holy Spirit comes into play.
John 14:26
26*But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 JN.2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Thus those who follow the leading of the Holy Spirit put on the mind of Christ.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. **
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked
So why do we cherry pick as so many say.
Because we are told to.
Galatians 3:19
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
*
Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 4:1-6
*
*
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Now according to the Jews the law is the first 5 books of Moses. They divide up the OT as the law, prophets and the writings.
Now we can see this law is our schoolmaster to bring us to unto Christ, but once Christ has been revealed to us we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
This is why we follow the mind of Christ and every thought (whether that thought is written in the bible or not) we take captive to Christ and if it does not match up with Christ description of the Father we reject as the interpretation of the scribes which became a part of scripture as pages*1835*& 1838 of the Jewish study bible states.
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Your last few posts were attacking my thinking by attacking my being an atheist. I only referred to atheist to avoid making it personal.