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You are talking about spitting on people. I'm talking about harmful doctrines within a religion. Very different things.
That is a very typical problem, Pleroo. The inability to separate themselves from their beliefs seems to be a common trait among those who idolize the Bible as if it is God's word instead of Jesus. They do not seem to believe the New Covenant and the real guide we are promised - the Comforter (Holy Spirit of Agape) - sent in Christ's name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Yes, just another example of the "poor me, everybody abuses me because of my religion" syndrome: ANY criticism of beliefs or practices is "spitting" on them. Just ignore. Most have learned to do so.
But it is a real problem and a serious stumbling block to reasoned discourse about beliefs, nate. It is undoubtedly why there are so many reports to the Mods AS IF they are being personally attacked. The discussions would be far more peaceful and respectful if they realized that they are NOT their beliefs.
I like that.
Yes, I'm reading, but this ain't my kind of debate. This is a holy war.
I think you overstate it, Arq. It is not any kind of war. This is a discussion among believers in Christ about the foundational assumptions and context about God and His motives under which the interpretations of Christ, His message, and the significance of His death are exposed and questioned.
Lol do you not realize that works the other way also? You and many atheist look at the bible as all or nothing so you must be getting close to being an atheist or the atheist becoming Christian.
Tza do you or do you not believe in the Holy Spirit as our guide? is the Holy Spirit not an infallible internal measuring stick and is not what Jesus revealed of the father the truth of the Father?
Now I do not know whether you read my post on how I have come to the same conclusions as mystic but take a look at what the Jews state about how the scriptures have come down to us.
According to the Jewish study Bible pages*1835*& 1838
The Jews interpreted scripture by using scripture, thus they turned the scripture over and over to find new truths from examining the scriptures and reordering the old scriptures. Thus when they came upon problem scriptures they would translate those scripture according to their own interpretation and took sides in theological and legal controversies, expanded the narrative and legal material all the while purporting to merely convey the meaning of the text they translated.
Thus in ancient times it was the responsibility of the translator not to only translate the text, but to render it comprehensible to those who could not read the sacred writing themselves. Thus many of their interpretation of the scripture became a part of the scriptures. So explain what method we are to use to separate man's interpretation of the scriptures about God from what God is really like?
Jesus said the only way to come unto the Father was by him and that he would send the Holy Spirit and he would lead us into all truth.
This is the central problem and it has not been addressed. It is ignored through blind acceptance of words "written in ink" AS IF they were as infallible as God. When you make something created by human hands and minds into a stand-in for God, you have made an Idol.
I think you overstate it, Arq. It is not any kind of war. This is a discussion among believers in Christ about the foundational assumptions and context about God and His motives under which the interpretations of Christ, His message, and the significance of His death are exposed and questioned.
Mystic, I do not care. To me this not a reasoned discussion and is more a holy war - a war of theological and very often personal imagination ideas, no matter how YOU see it. For that reason, it is no longer a discussion for me.
Mystic, I do not care. To me this not a reasoned discussion and is more a holy war - a war of theological and very often personal imagination ideas, no matter how YOU see it. For that reason, it is no longer a discussion for me.
the unholy war is between those that believe in omni dude and those that deny anything. Basically literal people fighting each other to maintain the safety of their literal world view.
the fight to change old world views to match today's understanding should be embarrassed.
But I understand the old world view of "deny anything' to maintain my religions blind faith statement of belief that "religion is so evil that we must lack belief in anything or we might lose." deny everything, lack belief in anything, fight anybody that doesn't think like me.
err yeah, thats way more rational. talk about waving tinkle sticks at each other.
Well, to be fair, Mystic. You are working out the difference between your unified field hypothesis and an opposing one, both of which accept a premise that TRANSPONDER won't or can't acknowledge as possible. Better to note that fact and then stay out of the discussion rather than troll it with observations that don't apply to that conversation.
Well, to be fair, Mystic. You are working out the difference between your unified field hypothesis and an opposing one, both of which accept a premise that TRANSPONDER won't or can't acknowledge as possible. Better to note that fact and then stay out of the discussion rather than troll it with observations that don't apply to that conversation.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19 New International Version (NIV) 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
In other words, Jesus had achieved what we could not, bringing God's Holy Sp[irit of agape love to His human consciousness reconciling our entire species to God. Our sins (failures) became irrelevant. Now as long as we follow Christ's instructions to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't we obtain the cover for our imperfections (sins/failures) of His perfect agape love for us all (called Grace). If we do NOT follow Christ's instructions to "love God and each other" and repent when we don’t we will reap what we sow, but no more and no less than we sow.
God Bless you all in Christ's love.
Beautiful post, Mystic. My beliefs are very much the same, although we call "agape love" - God's Divine Love, both of which is the very essence and substance of God.
I just wanted to add for those who are having trouble deciphering the Bible verse above, that the "reconciliation" which God brought back to the world with Jesus' birth is God's amazing higher Love, which was withdrawn from Adam and Eve (hence their fall)... and for centuries thereafter until Jesus' blessed birth.
As I've posted before, this is God's gift to us that we can either choose to accept (what an awesome present!) or reject. It's up to us.
Beautiful post, Mystic. My beliefs are very much the same, although we call "agape love" - God's Divine Love, both of which is the very essence and substance of God.
I just wanted to add for those who are having trouble deciphering the Bible verse above, that the "reconciliation" which God brought back to the world with Jesus' birth is God's amazing higher Love, which was withdrawn from Adam and Eve (hence their fall)... and for centuries thereafter until Jesus' blessed birth.
As I've posted before, this is God's gift to us that we can either choose to accept (what an awesome present!) or reject. It's up to us.
Blessings from SoCal...
Why do you think that God withdrew from anyone?
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I like that.
talk about waving tinkle sticks at each other.