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yeah, you have a point. I should add needlessly take my family member's hope. Like life after death. it doesn't change our lives one bit these days to let them have it. there is no need for me to take that.
If I had to take their "hope" as the most healthy choice, it would be my responsibility to do so.
Life after death is a separate issue from atheism. I personally don't think our consciousness is necessary after the body dies but that has nothing to do with atheism. That actually may be a left over Jehovah's Witness belief so I have to think about that one some more. Is all that person would be losing is some certainty.
I do see harm caused by religion as being on a spectrum all the way from ISIS to benign or even helpful. I posted a video from neuroendocrinologist Robert Sapolsky stating that belief has an evolutionary advantage.
Life after death is a separate issue from atheism. I personally don't think our consciousness is necessary after the body dies but that has nothing to do with atheism. That actually may be a left over Jehovah's Witness belief so I have to think about that one some more. Is all that person would be losing is some certainty.
I do see harm caused by religion as being on a spectrum all the way from ISIS to benign or even helpful. I posted a video from neuroendocrinologist Robert Sapolsky stating that belief has an evolutionary advantage.
I ...(ahem)... believe that may well be true.
I've stated elsewhere that belief may be the most powerful force in the universe.
You even see lots of threads on it here...about the "harms" of Religion.
Some of the Atheists on this board have even said that they think it is "The worst threat to mankind"....
So can you think of anything else in the history of mankind that has held back human progress more than religion has?
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...it sould be deemed a "mental illness"
Do you really think that someone who, in 2017, believes that gods exist should be given a clean bill of mental health??
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...and anyone teaching Religion to a kid should be busted for child abuse.
Anyone that teaches wilful ignorance and superstition to anyone should be busted.
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As far as what Arach said about "hope". Everyone has "hope" about something.
"Get a lot for doing little or nothing" is a popular hope. Casinos and racetracks are filled with them...
Yeah. ...and who wins. So much for 'faith'.
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...so are those buying stocks, etc.
...and would you buy stocks in a company for which there is no verifiable evidence for it's existence? Would you buy stocks in a company that promised wealth at some unknown future date without being able to show proof that it could deliver what it promised...or at least having some kind of evidence that past results were sound? Of course you wouldn't...and nor would anyone of sound mind.
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I think what Arach was referring to was the hope the Religious have that a "God Entity" will "fix" everything and square it all away in the end.
So can you think of anything else in the history of mankind that has held back human progress more than religion has?
Do you really think that someone who, in 2017, believes that gods exist should be given a clean bill of mental health??
Anyone that teaches wilful ignorance and superstition to anyone should be busted.
Yeah. ...and who wins. So much for 'faith'.
...and would you buy stocks in a company for which there is no verifiable evidence for it's existence? Would you buy stocks in a company that promised wealth at some unknown future date without being able to show proof that it could deliver what it promised...or at least having some kind of evidence that past results were sound? Of course you wouldn't...and nor would anyone of sound mind.
...and THAT is what "makes them look crazy".
And this is why some Atheists "look crazy"!
They have the mindset you put forth here...but live in a world where 4 out of 5 people believe in a way that you deem as "mentally ill", and many of them "should be busted". And lottsa them are in positions of high authority, to boot!
This "Reality of How the World Is"...and that you know that you are essentially helpless to do anything about it...has driven y'all CRAAAAAAAZEEEEEEE!
It's on you to reconcile your angst with reality.
Also, I know that many (most) equate "human progress" with increases and advances in science and technology. I have a differing view of that.
You still haven't said how you feel about the atheist blogger engagng in the deception that he did here on our forum.
The phrase "lacking a moral compass" comes to mind. The phrase Goldrule uses is "not trusting atheists." If someone appears to lack a moral compass and has supporters who condone or approve or shrug off that behavior then that is a large reason why the product they are selling is rejected.
It gives the appearance that the talk (arguing debate) matters most. Whereas to many what matters most is taking responsibility for how we treat others, that is the walk.
I don't even know about it. If any blogger broke the rules here or engaged in deception, that was breaking the rules and being deceptive. That applies to anyone. But to take that as a pretext for a blanket condemnation of all atheists and atheism in general is breathtakingly unwarranted.
I have to agree in a practical way that, while I present the debate as being on reasoning and evidence, the way we come across on the forum has got to be important. I shall leave it to others to make any comments about how this or that individual treats others when posting here.
And this is why some Atheists "look crazy"!
They have the mindset you put forth here...but live in a world where 4 out of 5 people believe in a way that you deem as "mentally ill", and many of them "should be busted". And lottsa them are in positions of high authority, to boot!
This "Reality of How the World Is"...and that you know that you are essentially helpless to do anything about it...has driven y'all CRAAAAAAAZEEEEEEE!
It's on you to reconcile your angst with reality.
Also, I know that many (most) equate "human progress" with increases and advances in science and technology. I have a differing view of that.
So we get the argument that crazies think anyone who isn't crazy is crazy, plus a bit of luddism by someone who uses the products of technology every day.
I loved the scenario of global atheists, faced with a world dominated by religion and no evidence of shift in it despite all our efforts, going smack out of our minds. We can both have a good laugh together on that one.
You still haven't said how you feel about the atheist blogger engagng in the deception that he did here on our forum.
The phrase "lacking a moral compass" comes to mind. The phrase Goldrule uses is "not trusting atheists." If someone appears to lack a moral compass and has supporters who condone or approve or shrug off that behavior then that is a large reason why the product they are selling is rejected.
It gives the appearance that the talk (arguing debate) matters most. Whereas to many what matters most is taking responsibility for how we treat others, that is the walk.
Who is this "atheist blogger engagng in the deception that he did here on our forum."??? I know of no such person, so help me out here?
Anyway, "lacking a moral compass" is not just a trait of non believers. Surely you aren't daft enough to think that? If you are, then I guess we should condemn all Catholics as kiddie diddlers? No?? All Jews as penny pinching bankers?? No??
Point being, when people like yourself paint in such broad brushes, it makes you look ignorant.
Last edited by ImissThe90's; 06-20-2017 at 07:52 AM..
Reason: stupid grammar...
Life after death is a separate issue from atheism. I personally don't think our consciousness is necessary after the body dies but that has nothing to do with atheism. That actually may be a left over Jehovah's Witness belief so I have to think about that one some more. Is all that person would be losing is some certainty.
I do see harm caused by religion as being on a spectrum all the way from ISIS to benign or even helpful. I posted a video from neuroendocrinologist Robert Sapolsky stating that belief has an evolutionary advantage.
everything we have can be traced to evolution. But lets look ahead, after we look behind, too.
I get your point. And it is a valid point. Big religion is bad. But is smaller, like minded groups bad? made of people that are generally in local youth lacrosse? or youth soccer?
yes, we have cults. I personally don't like how we sit around and let them do what their doing. That baffles me. i don't understand how one interaction sets precedent either in law. yeah, we can dis bann that one and let this one continue. Yes, there is a big butt grey line. That's where local over big gove kicks in.
also, ISIS hope. How did that form? It formed because other people took their hope, right? Also, how do we give non-isis people hope in the face of isis?
poof, it all gets back to ... no bad, all good = no hope. Its kind of weird, god is hopelessness too. It can be no other way. If monism was true, there would be no potential, no life, no nothing.
no baa jesus L8, don't hit that button again ... please.
Who is this "atheist blogger engagng in the deception that he did here on our forum."??? I know of no such person, so help me out here?
Anyway, "lacking a moral compass" is not just a trait of non believers. Surely you aren't daft enough to think that? If you are, then I guess we should condemn all Catholics as kiddie diddlers? No?? All Jews as penny pinching bankers?? No??
Point being, when people like yourself paint in such broad brushes, it makes you look ignorant.
I agree with you that broad brush strokes are superficial and display ignorance and merely spotlight a person's own bias and more often than not hate.
I once asked one of the militant atheists on this board whose remarks were of the sweeping generalist variety against people who acknowledge and value the Divine. I asked him since his remarks were so (a) stereotyped and (b) not based in reality,
I asked him have you ever sat down with anyone personally like this, spent time with them or their family seen how they apply this in their life. Do you even know anyone like this? I'm curious on what you base your statements.
He flat out stated with a good deal of revulsion "I don't hang out with those people. " and prideful arrogance " I don't know anyone like that". He said he knows what they're like because he reads about them on the internet.
Which explains a lot to me about his posts.
It is more helpful and less charged to talk about behaviors and how we view those behaviors and how we justify or dismiss this or that behavior. Does someone make amends or make excuses. Do they say "I have a problem with this because" or do they rave that 80% of the world is mentally ill.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-20-2017 at 08:34 AM..
I agree with you that broad brush strokes are superficial and display ignorance and merely spotlight a person's own bias and more often than not hate.
Glad we can agree!
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
I once asked one of the militant atheists on this board whose remarks were of the sweeping generalist variety against people who acknowledge and value the Divine. I asked him since his remarks were so (a) stereotyped and (b) not based in reality,
I asked him have you ever sat down with anyone personally like this, spent time with them or their family seen how they apply this in their life. Do you even know anyone like this? I'm curious on what you base your statements.
He flat out stated with a good deal of revulsion "I don't hang out with those people. " and prideful arrogance " I don't know anyone like that". He said he knows what they're like because he reads about them on the internet.
Which explains a lot to me about his posts.
It is more helpful and less charged to talk about behaviors and how we view those behaviors and how we justify or dismiss this or that behavior. Does someone make amends or make excuses.
Well, that person has a lot to learn, I suppose. Personally, I live in one of the most religious areas of the country, and have for my entire life. (Winston-Salem suburbs, Memphis suburbs, and southern AL). I have sat down with many people who are religious, and in fact, those encompass the large portion of my friends and family. I have no problem with religious people whatsoever, despite what a few people on here may think. I may call them out on things, but it isn't coming from a place of hate or ignorance.
I dislike greatly when people say things like "atheists are _____" or "Christians are _____". No group is some homogenous blob. That was all I was really saying.
I am still curious though, who the atheist masquerading as a believer was? If there is/was such a person, I would be right there with you calling them out on it.
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