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thrillobyte started a string entitled "A Challenge for Christians: Show Us Your Very Best Proof For Jesus." That string was restricted to extra-Biblical evidence on the existence of Jesus however. So I began this string with no restrictions at all. You Christians who genuinely believe that Jesus was not only actually resurrected from the dead, but that he subsequently flew off up into the sky, please provide your best evidence and rationale for believing that to be true. And for those of you who consider this to be a trap, of course I intend to rebut your claims. But if your claims are valid, my efforts to rebut them will not only be useless, they will be obviously useless. So how can you lose? The only thing you have to fear, perhaps, is discovering that your reasons for believing that Jesus was resurrected from the dead were nothing but empty claims and baseless assertions all along. If your beliefs are nonsense, you would like to know that. Wouldn't you? Or is it a fact that you prefer to continue believing a comforting lie then to know the truth?
Simply establish that believing that Jesus was resurrected from the dead is a reasonable thing to believe. That's all I am asking for.
See God promised Jesus Christ that He would go and give His life , and that by this God would give His spirit as a comforter to all the redeemed , where as if Jesus never went and gave His life then God would not give His spirit ................So the evidence of the cross and the resurrection of Jesus Christ is in all believers who surrendered to Jesus Christ and have received the promise of God`s spirit who abides on these believers , where as if Jesus did not go and give His life and was not raised up from the dead , then the believers today would not have the Holy Spirit the comforter abiding on their spirit , which believer today sense in a profound way and not a conjecture of ideas for belief ............. See believer have God living on their spirit where they are in unity with the living God , and the Living God is like co-dwelling on believer lives ....... See believer receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit were all power of Christ will come is living proof of the cross of Jesus Christ which is God`s lone judgment for His redemption of Jesus ........
Syghhh...
God cannot be proven. God that can be proven becomes science and subject to experiments. Hence, anything that is related to a particular religion is matter of faith. Not science.
hence, question posted, just like TD's one, is a moot question, as it is based on erroneous premise that god can be proven.
Please. It is not that hard to understand and accept.
Faith=no proof required, period, end of sentence.
Science= proof required, no faith present.
"faith" attempting to prove anything is not faith. It is doubt convincing itself that it is faithful. True believer will not even bother. For true believer any question of this nature is akin to " Show us your best evidence for believing that there is life".
See God promised Jesus Christ that He would go and give His life , and that by this God would give His spirit as a comforter to all the redeemed , where as if Jesus never went and gave His life then God would not give His spirit ................So the evidence of the cross and the resurrection of Jesus Christ is in all believers who surrendered to Jesus Christ and have received the promise of God`s spirit who abides on these believers , where as if Jesus did not go and give His life and was not raised up from the dead , then the believers today would not have the Holy Spirit the comforter abiding on their spirit , which believer today sense in a profound way and not a conjecture of ideas for belief ............. See believer have God living on their spirit where they are in unity with the living God , and the Living God is like co-dwelling on believer lives ....... See believer receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit were all power of Christ will come is living proof of the cross of Jesus Christ which is God`s lone judgment for His redemption of Jesus ........
Lot's of people were crucified in Roman times. What is the evidence that their death represented anything other than what ALL death's represent. The end of each individual's existence. If I promise you that when I die you will receive an all expenses already paid trip to Disney World, would that impress you? Because you will need to keep your wallet handy when you go.
Because what I notice is that God didn't promise anyone anything. Other people, speaking in God's name, or in Jesus' name, did all of the promising. And then a whole network of interconnected baseless assumptions are required. Of all the promises made, perhaps none is more renown than the promise that Jesus is about to return at any moment now to usher in a new era. I also notice that this particular promise has an ongoing record of proving to be true that currently stands at zero for two thousand years. Which says just about as much as can be said concerning believing in and stating as fact the unrealistic promises made by other people.
Syghhh...
God cannot be proven. God that can be proven becomes science and subject to experiments. Hence, anything that is related to a particular religion is matter of faith. Not science.
hence, question posted, just like TD's one, is a moot question, as it is based on erroneous premise that god can be proven.
Please. It is not that hard to understand and accept.
Faith=no proof required, period, end of sentence.
Science= proof required, no faith present.
"faith" attempting to prove anything is not faith. It is doubt convincing itself that it is faithful. True believer will not even bother. For true believer any question of this nature is akin to " Show us your best evidence for believing that there is life".
I didn't go so far (yet anyway) as to ask for the existence of God to be proven. I simply asked for some reasonable reason to suppose that the corpse of Jesus returned to life and subsequently flew off up into the sky. "That's what I heard," is not a reasonable reason.
Syghhh...
God cannot be proven. God that can be proven becomes science and subject to experiments. Hence, anything that is related to a particular religion is matter of faith. Not science.
hence, question posted, just like TD's one, is a moot question, as it is based on erroneous premise that god can be proven.
Please. It is not that hard to understand and accept.
Faith=no proof required, period, end of sentence.
Science= proof required, no faith present.
"faith" attempting to prove anything is not faith. It is doubt convincing itself that it is faithful. True believer will not even bother. For true believer any question of this nature is akin to " Show us your best evidence for believing that there is life".
Yes I thought the questions would be better as Show me your best reason for believing With that then Bible verses etc could be provide but are near useless when asking for proof same as any other holy book.
thrillobyte started a string entitled "A Challenge for Christians: Show Us Your Very Best Proof For Jesus." That string was restricted to extra-Biblical evidence on the existence of Jesus however. So I began this string with no restrictions at all. You Christians who genuinely believe that Jesus was not only actually resurrected from the dead, but that he subsequently flew off up into the sky, please provide your best evidence and rationale for believing that to be true. And for those of you who consider this to be a trap, of course I intend to rebut your claims. But if your claims are valid, my efforts to rebut them will not only be useless, they will be obviously useless. So how can you lose? The only thing you have to fear, perhaps, is discovering that your reasons for believing that Jesus was resurrected from the dead were nothing but empty claims and baseless assertions all along. If your beliefs are nonsense, you would like to know that. Wouldn't you? Or is it a fact that you prefer to continue believing a comforting lie then to know the truth?
Simply establish that believing that Jesus was resurrected from the dead is a reasonable thing to believe. That's all I am asking for.
Here's my question regarding your request, if you don't mind: Why does it matter to you?
And that is a genuine question. Is it because you've been told that if you do NOT believe it, there will be dire consequences? If so, does that make any sense to you whatsoever? Because IF that were true, and God really would punish people for eternity because they didn't believe something that cannot be proven (and I think you know full well that it can't), wouldn't such a God be the antithesis of any rational person's understanding of what is good, and wouldn't spending an ETERNITY "worshipping" such a God be torment in itself for you? I know it would for me.
So, can we safely discard that as a valid motivation for wanting to have someone establish the resurrection of Jesus as reasonable? It wouldn't serve the intended purpose of some Christians for us, regardless.
Your question cannot be proven to a non-believer like you or me one way or another. But, those who believe it have their own personal reasons for doing so. Do you begrudge them that?
Yes I thought the questions would be better as Show me your best reason for believing With that then Bible verses etc could be provide but are near useless when asking for proof same as any other holy book.
I like that, badlander.
1 Corinthians 15, and the idea of our physical bodies being like a seed from which a plant (spiritual body) grows, always piques my interest.
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