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On whose basis are you moral? Who and what defines moral for you?
What I don't understand is the religious idealism that there is some sort of absolute morality. It seems to me that if there were indeed such a thing that we would not have two religious groups arguing over whether or not abortion was a sin or if homosexuality was a sin. We wouldn't have grey areas in those things. Sure, we might all know that murder was bad or that you shouldn't rape someone but why would God set ground rules for that in which we seem to insinctually know better and yet not make the rules so clear in regards to things like abortion or homosexuality?
No, I don't want to turn this into an abortion/homosexuality thread. We have millions of them on this forum. I'm just saying that I don't think you can really say it is very logical that God made some sort of absolute morality in terms of how we look at murder and rape but forgot to instill it in us about homosexuality and abortion. The fundie says that we know the difference and the more liberal religious person says that God isn't that picky... It just boggles my mind that one can make accusations of not having morality or not being able to decide, when the very people who believe that God made the ground rules can't make up their minds.
I don't feel as if I need to "rebuttal" to that statement. Since you won't take my word for it, take God's word for it. Believing starts with faith in Lord Jesus. When one comes to realization that Jesus is God, then they will follow Him. Does that make sense? A book isn't evidence of itself...the Bible is a collection of books, so I guess that's a good thing that there are multiple testamonies. You said i'm wrong, but I got my statement In the Bible not from myself, but from my Father, and He is true.
Atheists can't take God's word for it, it's like asking adults to take the tooth fairy's word that she exists. The Bible is a compelling collection of writings from people professing their faith. But the Catholic Church selected which testimonies to include, and they excluded many others. The writings have been translated and re-written many times, so how do you know what they originally said and if the Bible you are reading is an accurate version of what the original authors wrote. Do you not think that when King James authorized the translation from Latin to English that there wasn't a political agenda that impacted how it was interpreted from the Latin? And since it was from the Latin and very little of the original texts were in Latin, how much had already been changed? Do you not think that power struggles in the Catholic Church changed some of the interpretations in previous centuries? I think it's wonderful that you are able to commit yourself so completely to an idea, but some of us look at the ideas behind other religions and don't see that one is better than others. Some of us look at the contradictions in Christianity and in other religions, and cannot overlook them. Some of us just can't abandon reason for a leap of faith. Doesn't mean that we are better or that you are better, just means that we are different.
The Bible predicted that the Jews would be scattered around the world. The Bible predicts that the Jews would return to Israel. The Bible predicted that Israel would FIRST take Judah (1948), the reclaim Jerusalem (1967). The Bible predicted that the Jews would be under ONE ruler. The Bible predicts that the Jews would be surrounded by enemies when they return. The Bible predicted that when the East Gate in Jerusalem was sealed (which is was in 1517) it would remain sealed until the return of the Messiah.
Could you provide the actual citations for these please?
I agree with you. Following Jesus Christ is alot more than a magic prayer and going to church on Sunday. It is giving your life to Him, in everything, worshiping Him with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength. It is a life. You assume I am a hypocrite because I speak truth out of the Bible, on what basis do you make these claims? Can you truthfully accuse me of being a hypocrite? Considering you have never seen the way I live you cannot.
So you believe in overcoming sin through living Christ?
So you believe in overcoming sin through living Christ?
godspeed,
freedom
I'm not perfect. Christ is perfect. His blood is righteousness for me. He is my God. Christ conquered sin and the grave, and through Him, so will I.
"But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God. The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you." (Romans 8:9-11)
I'm not perfect. Christ is perfect. His blood is righteousness for me. He is my God. Christ conquered sin and the grave, and through Him, so will I.
"But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God. The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you." (Romans 8:9-11)
So you don't have to do anything, Jesus' sacrafice did it for you?
you say you do not believe in God because there is no evidence for His existence. But there is also no evidence against Him. If anything, there is more evidence FOR Him than against Him. Just because we can not see the wind does not mean it does not exsist. We know it exsists because we see it blowing through the trees or stirring up winds to make hurricanes. You have a lot of faith in yourself for believing there is no God at all. What if you're wrong? What, then, is this life for? Do you ever feel like there is something missing in your life? Do we toil and labor for nothing? If there was a God, wouldn't you think we'd be subject to His rule since He is the creator of all things, including us? Don't rule it out.
What evidence exists for the existence of a god? The wind can be measured. Who cares if we’re wrong, we certainly don’t. There is nothing missing in my life except for the fabrication of a god thing.
I try to be the best person I can be on a daily basis because this is the only life I have. I don’t have to hedge my bets because I may go to some after life. I get one chance and this is it. I’m happy with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterBJK
There is more than enough evidence.
What evidence exists?
Part of a book that can’t be verified? Really, isn’t this a stretch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterBJK
Haven't we talked about all of the evidence already? The prophecy, the archaeological discoveries, the testamonies... there is evidence.
Ummmm, no. There is no verified data. Testimony? Really? Where, when, how was it verified? What archaeological discoveries? Verified? Like dinosaurs living with man? Verified how?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterBJK
I agree with you. Following Jesus Christ is alot more than a magic prayer and going to church on Sunday. It is giving your life to Him, in everything, worshiping Him with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength. It is a life. You assume I am a hypocrite because I speak truth out of the Bible, on what basis do you make these claims? Can you truthfully accuse me of being a hypocrite? Considering you have never seen the way I live you cannot.
I see the way you judge people based on a book.
The book I prefer is Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein. Part 3 is particularly apt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterBJK
I don't feel as if I need to "rebuttal" to that statement. Since you won't take my word for it, take God's word for it. Believing starts with faith in Lord Jesus. When one comes to realization that Jesus is God, then they will follow Him. Does that make sense? A book isn't evidence of itself...the Bible is a collection of books, so I guess that's a good thing that there are multiple testamonies. You said i'm wrong, but I got my statement In the Bible not from myself, but from my Father, and He is true.
You have no proof that your book is true. How has it been verified? Believing is a delusion. There is no proof of a god thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterBJK
On whose basis are you moral? Who and what defines moral for you?
Each person decides what is moral for him/herself within a societal construct.
So you don't have to do anything, Jesus' sacrafice did it for you?
godspeed,
freedom
I believe repentance is necessary, in other words a 180 from sin; going in the opposite direction; turning from sin; call it what you will. I believe it is key to follow Jesus and obey His commands. When you are a true child of God, you have a desire to please your Father.
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