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I think it's highly likely he has Mormonism and JWs in mind, and possibly others.
No. I wasn't referring to them. I was making a generalized statement. Why do people want to identify with groups when they know they are not part of them? That's what I'm asking.
I know who he has in mind too. I'm just wondering if he has the guts to name denominations or is content to remain cowering in the weeds, offering not-so-veiled innuendoes.
I respect the rules, codger. You're the one that continues to bully and taunt people, while softly accusing me of being a previous poster.
If you don't have anything to add to this, why are you posting?
No. I wasn't referring to them. I was making a generalized statement. Why do people want to identify with groups when they know they are not part of them? That's what I'm asking.
But you've given no examples.
Just expressing the fact you're miffed about...something.
Actually, I wasn't, although the apocrypha would be a good example, too. I'm sure you're as aware as I am that much that is taught and practiced in Roman Catholicism is as a result of "holy tradition." You can't find it in scripture anywhere. Nevertheless it's significantly important to Catholics. The Marian Doctrines would be one such example.
Catholic (for example) tradition is far more formalized and the authority of church pronouncements independent of scripture is more institutionalized than elsewhere in Christianity. But really you could make this criticism of even fundamentalists. For example, the doctrine of the "age of accountability" amounts to a traditional belief that has no defensible scriptural basis whatsoever. The doctrine that "life begins at conception" is not a scriptural teaching and in fact was a doctrine invented in the 1970s that was unknown before that. Now a lot of fundamentalists who might read this will insist it's scriptural simply because it's been taught to them since childhood as god's own truth ... but if they actually examine the history of these doctrines and the scriptural "arguments" for them, they'll quickly find a lot of nothing.
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Originally Posted by Katzpur
Unfortunately, it's the winners who get to write the history, regardless of who was right. I've always been more of a fan of orthopraxy than orthodoxy.
The fundamentalist perception / argument is that orthodoxy (correct doctrine / belief) is far more objectively determinable than orthopraxy (correct behavior / character). I am at this point in my life on your side in this, though. What people say means far less than what they do / how they conduct themselves.
Well, let me put it this way, then. Why do you believe that a religion that considers itself to be Christian ought to deny that it is? If I'm wearing a dress that I would describe as red, because it certainly looks red to me, what on earth would you hope to gain by telling me or anyone else that the dress isn't red at all, because you don't see it as red, but more of a dark orange?
I'm Baptist. I'm a member of Baptist church. I would be bothered by someone going around town and claiming to be a member of my church, while spouting falsehoods about my church.
Would that bother you, too?
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Somehow I don't think those councils ought to have such a right. To begin with, what about the professing Christians who lived before said councils ever convened? Must they posthumously surrender their claim to having been a Christian? And what if the councils are wrong? They're obvious called in the first place because of a disagreement in how the scriptures ought to be interpreted. One group sees a passage one way, and another sees it another way, so they get together, argue for awhile, and then take a vote? Where's God in all of this?
We can certainly agree to disagree on that. I will defer to them.
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Not so fact. The Bible never says, "You've got to believe such and such in order to be a Christian." The closest thing we find in the Bible to a qualifier is when Jesus Christ himself explains how people would be able to recognize His disciples, and that was by the love they showed one another. Incidentally, He also stressed love for one's enemy. That probably ought to count for something, too, don't you think.
Actually, yes--it really does. John 8:24 is a great example.
No. I wasn't referring to them. I was making a generalized statement. Why do people want to identify with groups when they know they are not part of them? That's what I'm asking.
Well, if it's just a generalized statement, you can't really expect to get very helpful answers. The thing is, if you can't tell us who you were referring to and deny that you were referring to the two groups that have been mentioned, you're really expecting a lot of us who are trying to contribute to the thread. It's hard to even imagine who you might have in mind. Now, if you had been referring to Mormons, I could probably answer your question. But since you're not...
I just sit here and wonder why a member of a religion that has been decided NON-Christian as long as it's existed.....would want to identify as a Christian?
We have people posting here from several different groups that have historically self-identified as being different from the rest of the Christian mainstream, even claiming to be the only representatives of Christianity on Earth....yet here they are saying they're just ordinary Christians. Why?
Why deny major facets of the faith, and still believe you are one of us? Why is it so important to you?
Better question, is who among us gets to decide who is, what is and how does a christian appear?
Is this anther ONLY MY CHURCH has the right to declare themselves christian and ALL others are spawns of satan?
Please quote chapter and verse where Jesus laid out the criteria for being a christian?
Better question, is who among us gets to decide who is, what is and how does a christian appear?
As my statement said--when the organization SELF-IDENTIFIES as being outside of the mainstream, that's a big one.
Besides the fact that the Bible does list certain things that are required to be believed.
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Is this anther ONLY MY CHURCH has the right to declare themselves christian and ALL others are spawns of satan?
Please quote chapter and verse where Jesus laid out the criteria for being a christian?
John 8:24 is a key verse.
But seriously...there are a lot of other good churches in town that I have no problem agreeing with. So no--it's not another "ONLY MY CHURCH" nonsense.
I'm Baptist. I'm a member of Baptist church. I would be bothered by someone going around town and claiming to be a member of my church, while spouting falsehoods about my church.
Would that bother you, too?
Oh, I absolutely would. I would be very bothered by someone going around town and claiming to be a Mormon, while spouting falsehoods about Mormonism. But let's take it a step further. If a Catholic were going around town and claiming that Mary, Jesus' mother, could hear our prayers and intervene with God on our behalf, and that that anyone who didn't believe that was not a Christian, I'd also be bothered. How would you feel about that, as a baptist?
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We can certainly agree to disagree on that. I will defer to them.
Well, that's certainly your prerogative, as long as you're not saying that one must defer to them in order to be a Christian.
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Actually, yes--it really does. John 8:24 is a great example.
Okay, so John 8:24 says, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." You lost me. That verse is a simple straightforward statement that I think all Christians can agree on.
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