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And has the world gotten to be a better or worse place?
Jesus is the light of the world. He's the only thing keeping this world from utter chaos.
The problem that most people have with Jesus is those who follow him. Why? People are imperfect and they'll mess things up every time.
Christians mess it up. As do atheists, Buddhists, and all other religions and groups.
But the biggest teaching of Jesus was foremost to love others. That's it. And you want to tear that down.
I don't think anyone has a problem with the love part of Jesus. And I know that you know there have been tons of threads about other issues apart from that.
So you want to discredit Christ because some Christians use fear mongering as a way to attract converts?
That's the original question.
As a side note, do you feel Christians shouldn't warn people?
But see, warning people is one of my issues. If people don't believe YOUR way, they need to be warned that they are going to hell or are going to be eternally separated from God. Believe me, I used to be a Christian and know tons of them and yes, this is the bottom line of what they believe. So is this not fear mongering?
I don't feel a need to discredit Christ or any other deity that I don't believe exists. I discredit the idea that your belief in Christ is a reasonable basis for creating laws and regulations that will impact the way I live my life. Keep your Christ out of my life and I couldn't care less what you or anyone else believes. However, some Christians feel that their religious beliefs should be used as the basis for telling an entire country of millions of people from diverse backgrounds how they can live. I will fight this Christian version of the Taliban with every means that I have available.
A number of Christians would want the U.S. turned into a Christian theocracy if they could. They would be almost the Christian equivalent of Muslims wanting Sharia law applied in the U.S. Nutjob fundie politicians like Michelle Bachmann is one such person. If Christians would keep their silly beliefs confined to their church services on Sunday, that would be one thing. As many atheists have pointed out here and other places, Christian's ACTIONS are often informed by their beliefs and at this point is where I will vehemently oppose them. They vote for school board candidates opposed to teaching evolution or giving creation ideas credence in the classroom, some want rights taken away from gays, some want prayer instituted in public schools, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on and on and on. Then they cry they are being persecuted with thousands of churches, Christian radio stations, Christian schools, etc. here in the U.S. It's would be quite funny if they weren't so serious about their death cult called Christianity.
A number of Christians would want the U.S. turned into a Christian theocracy if they could. They would be almost the Christian equivalent of Muslims wanting Sharia law applied in the U.S. Nutjob fundie politicians like Michelle Bachmann is one such person. If Christians would keep their silly beliefs confined to their church services on Sunday, that would be one thing. As many atheists have pointed out here and other places, Christian's ACTIONS are often informed by their beliefs and at this point is where I will vehemently oppose them. They vote for school board candidates opposed to teaching evolution or giving creation ideas credence in the classroom, some want rights taken away from gays, some want prayer instituted in public schools, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on and on and on. Then they cry they are being persecuted with thousands of churches, Christian radio stations, Christian schools, etc. here in the U.S. It's would be quite funny if they weren't so serious about their death cult called Christianity.
Did you see now it looks like they got the Johnson amendment repealed under this new tax plan? Yeah, the get to politicize on our dime now. If they wanted to do it before they risked giving up their tax exempt status. We've seen what kind of laws they want under Nixon. Many of these churches are getting hit with child sexual assault lawsuits. Will we see a change in laws designed to protect victims now?
I am probably as militant an atheist as you will ever run into. But I have never stood on a street corner with a bullhorn blaring my atheism to the world at large, or taken it door to door.
In contrast to Christians who approach you at McDonald's while eating or Public Transport Rail Stations to ask about whether or not you have "found Jesus" or other Christian nonsense. I can tell you living in Texas, this stuff happens.
Nobody is shutting you down. I was expressing one of my problems with some of the Christians and their leaders out there. It's not just fire and brimstone. It's when Christians express that Jesus is the only way to God and if you don't believe that or act on it, you're in trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom
But see, warning people is one of my issues. If people don't believe YOUR way, they need to be warned that they are going to hell or are going to be eternally separated from God. Believe me, I used to be a Christian and know tons of them and yes, this is the bottom line of what they believe. So is this not fear mongering?
Yeah, OK, I see what you are saying. We teach that Jesus is the only way to God. Also, we teach that if people don't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they will be eternally separated from God. Guilty as charged.
But lets look at fear mongering.
Fear Mongering noun
The action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue.
"His campaign for re-election was based on fearmongering and deception"
The definition, (and the dictionary-supplied example,) imply deception. Christians do not feel deceived by the Bible's description of the only way to God and the results of not accepting Jesus Christ as a savior, as you may recall when you used to be a Christian.
Call it what you will, but IMO to accuse Christians of "fear mongering" when we describe our beliefs is a misunderstanding of our intention and purpose.
Yeah, OK, I see what you are saying. We teach that Jesus is the only way to God. Also, we teach that if people don't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they will be eternally separated from God. Guilty as charged.
But lets look at fear mongering.
Fear Mongering noun
The action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue.
"His campaign for re-election was based on fearmongering and deception"
The definition, (and the dictionary-supplied example,) imply deception. Christians do not feel deceived by the Bible's description of the only way to God and the results of not accepting Jesus Christ as a savior, as you may recall when you used to be a Christian.
Call it what you will, but IMO to accuse Christians of "fear mongering" when we describe our beliefs is a misunderstanding of our intention and purpose.
You can try to put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. ANY "Godfather offer" - e.g., "Love me, or else" - is fear-mongering and bogus. God IS love and there is no "or else" involved, period.
A number of Christians would want the U.S. turned into a Christian theocracy if they could. They would be almost the Christian equivalent of Muslims wanting Sharia law applied in the U.S. Nutjob fundie politicians like Michelle Bachmann is one such person. If Christians would keep their silly beliefs confined to their church services on Sunday, that would be one thing. As many atheists have pointed out here and other places, Christian's ACTIONS are often informed by their beliefs and at this point is where I will vehemently oppose them. They vote for school board candidates opposed to teaching evolution or giving creation ideas credence in the classroom, some want rights taken away from gays, some want prayer instituted in public schools, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on and on and on. Then they cry they are being persecuted with thousands of churches, Christian radio stations, Christian schools, etc. here in the U.S. It's would be quite funny if they weren't so serious about their death cult called Christianity.
When Christians made it their business to reconstruct politics according to their religious beliefs, non believers began to make it their business to destroy the credibility of the foundation of Christian beliefs and claims by doing nothing more devious than shining a light on those beliefs and claims and exposing them for the nonsense they have always been. The result is that the percentage of people in the US that consider themselves to be Christians has dropped by 20% in 20 years. It's far too late now to put the cork back in that bottle.
Yeah, OK, I see what you are saying. We teach that Jesus is the only way to God. Also, we teach that if people don't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they will be eternally separated from God. Guilty as charged.
But lets look at fear mongering.
Fear Mongering noun
The action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue.
"His campaign for re-election was based on fearmongering and deception"
The definition, (and the dictionary-supplied example,) imply deception. Christians do not feel deceived by the Bible's description of the only way to God and the results of not accepting Jesus Christ as a savior, as you may recall when you used to be a Christian.
Call it what you will, but IMO to accuse Christians of "fear mongering" when we describe our beliefs is a misunderstanding of our intention and purpose.
The example in the definition happened to include "and deception" in the sentence and yes, fear-mongering is often a tool of deception.
However all it really is, is evoking fear to get something you want, in your case, converts.
You may tell yourself it doesn't involve deception. For the sake of argument, let us assume that it does not. It is still arousing fear in others to a particular end.
I would not care, but for the fact that I have in my time met many people, many of them even Christians, who live in terror of eternal perdition and cannot escape the unvirtuous cycle of anxiety it produces. They don't "feel" saved and obsessively repent to no effect. They live their whole lives in fear of an asserted but unsubstantiated construct called "hell". People experience real suffering over this, even when they try their best to follow your formula for avoiding hellthreat.
I don't see why this is necessary. The JWs for example manage to retain people quite effectively despite being annihilationists. I suppose you see it as necessary because it's your dogma and you have to uphold it, but really, if your church simply provided a loving, supportive, encouraging environment for people to build community and refuge together, it seems like a real "build it and they will come" proposition to me. That you have to hold anything over anyone's head to attract or retain them is, it seems to me, a real red flag and sign of something fundamentally wrong with the ideology.
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