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I can do that, but I did nothing special, just posted the explanation in the Bible itself. But I would argue that the 'word of God' is what Jesus was teaching, or what Pauline Christianity showed him as teaching, which was that faith In Jesus and his salvation though death on the cross (if you believe it) will save you. In addition, do not listen to the Jews and their Law, just act in a good way, as Jesus explains it. After all Paul, after initially explaining (in Romans) that Faith wipes out Sin had to backtrack a bit (in Corinthians, I believe) and argue that sinning can lose you this grace.
1.Cor. 10 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13 No temptation[c] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[d] beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[e] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
The general warning is there as the possible consequences of 'falling' but this buts it more clearly than most of it.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-19-2018 at 04:41 PM..
I can do that, but I did nothing special, just posted the explanation in the Bible itself. But I would argue that the 'word of God' is what Jesus was teaching, or what Pauline Christianity showed him as teaching, which was that faith In Jesus and his salvation though death on the cross (if you believe it) will save you. In addition, do not listen to the Jews and their Law, just act in a good way, as Jesus explains it. After all Paul, after initially explaining (in Romans) that Faith wipes out Sin had to backtrack a bit (in Corinthians, I believe) and argue that sinning can lose you this grace.
1.Cor. 10 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13 No temptation[c] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[d] beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[e] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
The general warning is there as the possible consequences of 'falling' but this buts it more clearly than most of it.
But then the question goes back to: What does faith in Jesus mean? Paul's readers must have known what Jesus represented, but that missing point has not been carried into the modern age.
Jesus stressed the prophets pretty heavily. That tells me that whoever wrote the gospels also believed that the Hebrew prophets were speaking the word of God, or in other words, they were speaking the things that they believed in (agreed with) that present time as well. You can't dismiss the similarity between the attack on the first temple in 700BC, and the second temple in 70AD. Those are the two big events which inspired the Old and New Testaments. And both Testaments were written after the fact.
“The farmer went out to sow his seed. As he sowed, some fell along the road, and it was trampled under foot, and the birds of the sky devoured it. Other seed fell on the rock, and as soon as it grew, it withered away, because it had no moisture. Other fell amid the thorns, and the thorns grew with it, and choked it. Other fell into the good ground, and grew, and produced one hundred times as much fruit.” As he said these things, he called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
Interpretation:
Luke 8:11-15
World English Bible (WEB)
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those along the road are those who hear, then the devil comes, and takes away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved. Those on the rock are they who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; but these have no root, who believe for a while, then fall away in time of temptation. That which fell among the thorns, these are those who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. That in the good ground, these are such as in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, hold it tightly, and produces fruit with patience.
The story as it is written in Luke 8:16 and on explains the parable as supposedly intended.
However, it is obvious that if a farmer is lacking and fallible he will make mistakes with his seed.
A farmer should know that a seed needs good ground to sprout safely, good ground to take root and moisture to grow, and well-taken care of ground to compete in. But the story heartlessly continues that even with all of the waste and needless sacrifice of seeds, the handful of seeds that do manage to grow end up giving off much more seed-fruit than their original single parent tree. Nothing to disagree with there.
But around that story is the story of Mary Magdalene being possessed by seven demons, and the explanation that the story is about the idea that the seed should take care of itself and about the existence and beleive in Satan and not about the farmer's weakness. As with Harry Potter, I don't trust Satan or his cronies to listen to or respect Jesus, but for some reason (powerplay writing) the stories act as if they would.
The demons, who believe in the existence of God and Jesus and fear him to the point of recognizing their own weakness respecting his authority, are not saved or forgiven by God... Yet Christians will be, even though they have doubt that the demons could only dream of. Hopefully, those who have a brain and heart to understand will understand and take heed to protect themselves from abusers who wish to fish them, corral them, fleece them, oil them, salt them, sacrifice them, cook them, and eat them.
But then the question goes back to: What does faith in Jesus mean? Paul's readers must have known what Jesus represented, but that missing point has not been carried into the modern age.
Jesus stressed the prophets pretty heavily. That tells me that whoever wrote the gospels also believed that the Hebrew prophets were speaking the word of God, or in other words, they were speaking the things that they believed in (agreed with) that present time as well. You can't dismiss the similarity between the attack on the first temple in 700BC, and the second temple in 70AD. Those are the two big events which inspired the Old and New Testaments. And both Testaments were written after the fact.
I'm pretty sure about what Paul meant by that. Believing that Jesus was the Messiah and had risen from death (though I argue that this was seen as a spiritual rather than a solid-body resurrection) is all that was needed to save his fellow -citizens when the last Days came.
I'm not so sure of what exactly the evangelists intended the readers should have Faith in, but it was (I am again sure) a development of Pauline ideas so that Jesus was God manifest, not just a messiah powered by God; and that the resurrection had to be solid -body, as merely a spirit resurrection wasn't convincing enough.
That said, the parable is about the need to have faith in whatever the writers felt they ought to have faith in. I haven't tried to put all their ideas together to see what their ideas were.
“The farmer went out to sow his seed. As he sowed, some fell along the road, and it was trampled under foot, and the birds of the sky devoured it. Other seed fell on the rock, and as soon as it grew, it withered away, because it had no moisture. Other fell amid the thorns, and the thorns grew with it, and choked it. Other fell into the good ground, and grew, and produced one hundred times as much fruit.†As he said these things, he called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!â€
I hear in the porn industry that kind of money shot is called “shooting ropesâ€.
I agree. The parable is explained. It is about (in a retrospective way) the sowing and growing of the Christian message. Those who listen will be saved; those who don't (or who later fall away, as in the analogy of the seed falling on rocky ground) will, in due course, be thrown in the garbage.
Don't fall into the same trap the bible fundamentalists have by interpreting everything what Jesus taught is all about being saved from hell to heaven.
Fundamentalists have turned this parable into how different people receive the word to get saved from the hell they fear, when in fact it is how the word keeps on coming and coming until the individual receives it (by seeing it and understanding it).
The wayside, rocky places and thorns were not and never are the intended place for the seed to fall, the well prepared soil is. The mind is our garden and when it is well prepared it is ready to receive(see and understand ) the word.
God said my thoughts are not your thoughts.... he did not say your thoughts cannot be mine(that is what the bible fundamentalist sees when he reads that scripture through their heaven and hell mindset)
The garden of our mind is prepared by the way we think. whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, think on these things.
As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
Don't worry. I know exactly where the traps are and how to spring them.
The literalist trap. The OT is either historically unreliable, or historically grotesquely biased; see the prophecies of Babylon and Tyre, the exodus (if vaguely based on the expelling of the Hyksos), Daniel and the Assyrian siege of Jerusalem (Sennacherib's army wasn't smit; Hezekiah had to submit and pay tribute). The NT, if it IS taken as more or less reliable, is a clear story of a wannabe - Messiah faking a series of miracles to impress his followers, The 'raising os Lazarus' being the best fake of all, and in the end a dry -run of his own death and resurrection. But it is demonstrably Not reliable.
The Metaphorical, Symbolic or Cherry -picked Bible -trap is either 'Metaphorically true' means 'Not True', or cherry picking means 'If you don't believe some of it, why do you believe any of it?'
The other traps are "Who made everything, then?" (Who knows? What does it matter?) or "We need religion, true or not" No, we don't.
Don't worry. I know exactly where the traps are and how to spring them.
The literalist trap. The OT is either historically unreliable, or historically grotesquely biased; see the prophecies of Babylon and Tyre, the exodus (if vaguely based on the expelling of the Hyksos), Daniel and the Assyrian siege of Jerusalem (Sennacherib's army wasn't smit; Hezekiah had to submit and pay tribute). The NT, if it IS taken as more or less reliable, is a clear story of a wannabe - Messiah faking a series of miracles to impress his followers, The 'raising os Lazarus' being the best fake of all, and in the end a dry -run of his own death and resurrection. But it is demonstrably Not reliable.
The Metaphorical, Symbolic or Cherry -picked Bible -trap is either 'Metaphorically true' means 'Not True', or cherry picking means 'If you don't believe some of it, why do you believe any of it?'
The other traps are "Who made everything, then?" (Who knows? What does it matter?) or "We need religion, true or not" No, we don't.
*Sproing*
You are correct in what the stories describe. But have you considered that the stories in the New Testament were actually comedic satire based on what the church had begun doing to the real historical Jesus? To me, reading Acts of the Apostles (by Luke) is like reading Mark Twain. Mark Twain even mentioned them in one of his novels.
Interesting idea. I certainly see the hammock of wrigglies (1) as quite as amusing as many satires. Even without it being done even after Jesus had apparently declared all foods clean. Incidentally, the reminds me of a discussion about Mark's 'Thus Jesus declared all foods clean' gloss and whether it was there originally. It seemed that it was a later addition not found in the Sinai Codex, but there is Luke's remark about giving alms and everything is 'clean' for you. The passage in Acts might suggest that Luke added his 'everything is clean' reference himself to the original passage (Matthew not having it was put down to the hypothesis that he was Jewish) and that might have originated the later addition of the more positive Mark gloss.
But Luke might have forgotten his addition and though (in Acts) that he has to arrange God abolishing clean food laws.
(1) Acts 10. 9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about [e]the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has [f]cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
Why doesn't someone take the sentences apart a bit...as in...what does seed stand for...
what does soil stand for...
what does a rock stand for...
what does a thorn stand for..
what does trampled on stand for...and so on.
That outta keep someone busy for awhile....
That would be the thing wouldn't it? The problem being is that it can't be done. I mean, you could explain words till the cows come home but nobody can verify. You need two people who speak a language fluidly just as you would need two peope to verify any language.
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