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Perhaps people should start looking at the reasons WHY people become religious fundamentalists in the first place. What are the conditions which lead a country to go down that path?
Aside from being brainwashed and indoctrinated by their parents and church leaders from a very young age, the next biggest reason is fear.
One of the big problems in this country is that we have quite a lot of politicians who wouldn't mind if we became a Christian version of ISIS - because strict adherence to a religion is desirable when its your religion and you're just as strict following its dogma.
These are the people who deliberately set up conditions in America to facilitate a reliance on religion just to get through the day. For instance, there was the Texas GOP Board of Education platform that said they wanted to discontinue the teaching of critical thinking and other higher order thinking skills - so that kids will be more susceptible to religious and political propaganda.
Or, one of the reasons why I believe we don't have socialized medicine even though everyone else has it is because the powers that be would rather have us nervous and afraid of getting sick than to rest in the knowledge that we'll receive treatment regardless of our financial capability. If we know treatment is free and we don't have to worry about our meds, we don't need god.
The more prosperity, the less religion - that's generally how it works.
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules
The really sad thing about it is that the religious skeptics are just as responsible, if not more so, as anyone else for causing that to happen. So they sound really stupid when they complain about things which they are directly responsible for.
Nonsense.
You're just going to have to accept the reality that it's fundamentalist Christianity that bears 100% of the blame. Do you blame critics of Islam for international terrorism? Of course you don't. But because you happen to be Christian, you want to foist at least some of the blame onto we outspoken atheists so you have something with which to pick on the atheists instead of going after the fundy Christians - which is what you *should* be doing if you value your freedom to worship as you see fit.
We're not doing anything except doing a job you should be helping us to do - which is to counter the forces of religious extremism because you have even more to lose than we atheists should they take control. Because we atheists can just pretend to believe and put on a good show - but can you pretend to believe something when you already believe in something else?
Well said. And Ozzy is the 'reasonable muslim' who is nevertheless enabling the terrorists by refusing to do more than say "I don't agree with them, of course" and then to everything to help them, simply because they distrust (at least) those with a different view on religion.
Indeed. I don't want to make this a political post, but in the US, Religion (particular Right wing Fundamentalist religion) is now pretty much identical with the Republicans.
We could easily not have had Dubhya (I say we.. I'm a limey of course, but you know what I mean) and we could easily have had Sarah Palin. I think would might easily not have had Trump, just as we could easily have not voted to leave Europe.
Reagan seems inevitable now, as well as the recently deceased former president famed for enabling Al Quaida and approving disenfranchising atheists. It is ironic that he was in the right place at the right time when the Russian with a map of Burma on his head run out of money to fight the cold war and Reagan shook hands with a smile and then went to ask his advisors for the first advice ever: "What just happened".
And I don't know whether his rating as a great American is because of this inadvertent outbidding of the CCCP in the cold war or his singlehanded war against a communist plot that didn't exist or for passing whatever religious privilege laws he liked. But I hope I'm dead before America's biggest ever aircraft carrier "USS Dubhya" is sent to police the world for the Baptist State Church of America.
It has been rather covered up just how much like Dubhya Reagan was; he simply went ahead and did what he wanted because he thought God was talking to him Why wouldn't they? It's what Religion leads people to believe, never mind the fundamentalists. If they can Indoctrinate people to believe that that Bible means 'Cut healthcare' by 'feed the poor' and 'the meek shall inherit the earth' means 'donate to evangelism and God will make you rich', and by 'I came to bring not peace, but a sword..' Well that would be what they thought God was telling them, even if it said the opposite, because (Austin Atheists knows) the dumber and more indoctrinated the Republican voter is, the less they actually know about what is in the Bible.
I won't post Mat Dillahunty proving that the OT stated that a foetus was not a human being until birth and God commanded arranged miscarriage (Aka Abortion) if there was any doubt about what the woman had been up to and of course that this was not one of the commandments that Jesus 'Fulfilled' (Aka replaced by Christian rules), but I will say that this Ghost Bible was not based always based on people cherry -picking what they liked, (though Liberl Christians do that all the times) but it is one they are taught by the religious Right and which bears little resemblance to the Bible as it actually exists.
Which is why we quote Obama: 'Read yah bahble' as it makes the shortlist of reasons why people give religion up. Nor will I point up that "Family Values is something Christianity is good for" is certainly not what Jesus taught. He taught that the cult and his Charismatic leadership is all that matters and people should reject their family and follow him. Hellfire - believers Know that but they don't See it. The see only this New Right Wing Version that they have been taught without their ever reading the Book themselves.
I'll just mention that "In God We Trust" was simply one of the Things done ny Right wing politicians and they would rather press the Button and have the world reduced to crackling embers than have it removed. But Ah gotta dream, folks, that one day it will off the money it should never have been slapped onto.
Trans, your understanding of either the Bible or Jesus is so limited, I can't take anything you say seriously. It seems like all you know about the Bible is what you have heard from atheist sources.
I see Nathan Phelps the Atheist who left the WBC as someone who is following Jesus by leaving his family. Yet you sound as if anytime a person would leave a family is something evil.
Last edited by OzzyRules; 12-06-2018 at 03:59 AM..
Trans, your understanding of either the Bible or Jesus is so limited, I can't take anything you say seriously. It seems like all you know about the Bible is what you have heard from atheist sources.
I know I am not an expert on the Bible. I am always willing to be educated, and I have learned from all sides. But there has to be a cut - off between stuff that seems gen. and stuff pulled out of the ass. Quite apart from stuff that is just wrong. And I can say back to you that I am constantly coming up against Bible apologists whose knowledge does not only not undermine any ideas I have (1) but constantly shows their knowledge, let alone understanding of the Bible to be relatively lacking.
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I see Nathan Phelps the Atheist who left the WBC as someone who is following Jesus by leaving his family. Yet you sound as if anytime a person would leave a family is something evil.
Yes, I get you. But you don't get me. In principle, It's nice if family gets along, neighbours get along, workmates get along, cities get along (city rivalry is most distressingly pointless, but you get it more often than not) and of course, I would love nations to get along. But very often friends are more agreeable than relatives. Family ties are Not sacred. And where a parent is abusive, the kids should leave as soon as they can. I and my sisters all did and we have remained close up to the present (2) .
That's me. But my point was that Christianity promotes itself as a champion of Family values. US Christianity peddles the message that it keeps the family whole but irreligion destroys it. In fact, like cults, such as Westboro, and a few others, it is fine so long as the family is all in it, but as soon as someone has serious doubts, they suffer and can be punished or expelled if they don't conform, and they may have to split just as with Nathan Phelps, Rachel Slick and Matt Dillahunty, though he has made efforts to build bridges back to his family.
And this is in fact the thinking promoted by Jesus. Or rather the early Christian cult putting their views into Jesus' mouth: "Who is my Father and my Mother?" Not his family, but the cult -members. This is still too often seen as the thinking underlying the 'Christianity is good for the family' claim.
(1) though, if they do, I'm grateful for it - like the important info. that the Dead Sea scrolls in some ways support the Septuagint as an OT reading that might have been what was current in Jesus' time.
(2) I'm hoping to stay over in her pad in London before flying out to escape Xmaspop in the stores.
The first time a post in this thread was reported, I copied the opening post into the report so I could highlight some stuff so the entire moderating team would know why it was left open. Here's what I said:
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Here is the post in question. I'm going to highlight in RED the words that make it applicable for the Religion and Spirituality forum. MQ and I are watching the thread. If it turns political of veers off topic, we'll deal with it. I'm editing some language, as marked in blue.
Now, it has obviously turned political, and has therefore been closed.
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I'm a limey of course, but you know what I mean) and we could easily have had Sarah Palin. I think would might easily not have had Trump, just as we could easily have not voted to leave Europe.
