In God We Trust (ghost, punished, Christians, believers)
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That has already been determined by the U.S. Government...and it is set law.
I may not prefer it to be that way...but it is.
Check this out: Year of the Bible, Public Law 97-280
As you can see, it declares, in the text of the basis for the Law, that The Bible Is:
* The Word of God...and has made a unique contribution in shaping the United States as a distinctive and blessed nation and people.
And That:
* The deeply held religious convictions springing from the Holy Scriptures led to the early settlement of our Nation.
*Biblical teachings inspired concepts of civil government that are contained in our Declaration of Independence and the constitution of the United States.
*Many of our great national leaders—among them Presidents Washington, Jackson, Lincoln, and Wilson—paid tribute to the surpassing influence of the Bible in our country's development, as the words of President Jackson that the Bible is “the rock on which our Republic rests”.
*The history of our Nation clearly illustrates the value of voluntarily applying the teachings of the Scriptures in the lives of individuals, families, and societies.
*Renewing our knowledge of and faith in God through Holy Scripture can strengthen us as a nation and a people.
They then LEGISLATED INTO LAW:
The recognition of both the formative influence the Bible has been for our Nation, and our national need to study and apply the teachings of the Holy Scriptures.
It would take a fight on Constitutional grounds to strike all Laws like this that set precedent for how the Bible is viewed.
Until then...The Bible is declared the WORD OF GOD...and it is stated AS LAW that we, NEED TO STUDY AND APPLY THE TEACHINGS OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.
I remember you making a big deal about this some years ago. I don't think I understood then that this was one of the initiatives pushed through by Reagan (not that he wouldn't have had the enthusiastic support of the religious Right in that). Just as he insisted on an invasion of Grenada to prevent a communist threat that existed only in his own muddled and Religiously indoctrinated head.
The religious know that indoctrinating the people so the will vote in the people they can use or, if they do whatever they like, it can be relied upon to suit the religious Right if nobody else. This has resulted in star acts in the list of presidents, two occupying the No 1 and 2 spots in 'America's worst presidents'.
That laws reflect the will of the people and therefore laws waving religion about prove that the people want religion is either naive or crafty on your part. My money's on crafty. They want religion because they have been indoctrinated to want it. They vote in presidents that the Right field and like Reagan and Dubhya, do dumb stuff that is accepted by a programmed voting public.
If you think that people can't be deprogrammed, you are mistaken. It isn't easy and we are battling against a well -funded and ruthless religious right that want more of the programming, not less.
But if it happens, then laws that were tuck on to push the agenda of religion, can be unstuck to push the agenda of irreligion. I admit that the present situation is not looking great for us, but at the grassroots, where it really has to change, it's not looking bad.
That has already been determined by the U.S. Government...and it is set law.
I may not prefer it to be that way...but it is.
Check this out: Year of the Bible, Public Law 97-280
As you can see, it declares, in the text of the basis for the Law, that The Bible Is:
* The Word of God...and has made a unique contribution in shaping the United States as a distinctive and blessed nation and people.
And That:
* The deeply held religious convictions springing from the Holy Scriptures led to the early settlement of our Nation.
*Biblical teachings inspired concepts of civil government that are contained in our Declaration of Independence and the constitution of the United States.
*Many of our great national leaders—among them Presidents Washington, Jackson, Lincoln, and Wilson—paid tribute to the surpassing influence of the Bible in our country's development, as the words of President Jackson that the Bible is “the rock on which our Republic rests”.
*The history of our Nation clearly illustrates the value of voluntarily applying the teachings of the Scriptures in the lives of individuals, families, and societies.
*Renewing our knowledge of and faith in God through Holy Scripture can strengthen us as a nation and a people.
They then LEGISLATED INTO LAW:
The recognition of both the formative influence the Bible has been for our Nation, and our national need to study and apply the teachings of the Holy Scriptures.
It would take a fight on Constitutional grounds to strike all Laws like this that set precedent for how the Bible is viewed.
Until then...The Bible is declared the WORD OF GOD...and it is stated AS LAW that we, NEED TO STUDY AND APPLY THE TEACHINGS OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.
The only reason why no one has taken this to court is because no one has actually tried to enforce any of this garbage.
Most likely because they *know* it violates the Constitution in all kinds of egregious ways.
Plus, Reagan was a fundevangelist who believed in the End Times, so it's no surprise he would be responsible. The 80's was a horrible decade for lovers of freedom in America since it was the decade of the Satanic Panic, frequent book and music burnings by churches, and near hysteria over everything from rock music to corporate logos. It was positively insane. Not to mention that Reagan had stacked the FCC with a bunch of fundevangelists - and television programming went into la-la land. The writing was so formulaic that you already knew how the show would end before the beginning credits were done scrolling - and 20 guys could have a firefight with machine guns and no one ever got shot.
This is what makes religious extremism in this country so dangerous - they pass this kind of garbage all the time, shamelessly violating the 1st Amendment - and hope no one does anything to stop them. Oh who cares anyway, right?
But it started with Carter and continues into the present day - only now, the real fascists are getting closer and closer to real power.
Others look forward to that too! You and Shirina can share a flat!
We know Taz you love watching the US become a backwoods 3rd world nation full of bible thumping scientifically iterate folks who have no clue about upholding the Constitution.
Becoming an Expat to get away from these types as well as folks of your ilk is truly a blessing.
All of that narcissistic mass-murdering anger-management stuff seems to be ALL that atheists care about. And they are just stories mostly within one book, or set of books. And the stories could have been written by an atheist jokester for all we know.
Most people are more Naturalistic in their faith. Church and religion are just a connection to their community.
This is the reason why, if they make a concerted effort, the theo-fascists will eventually win.
Those who are more - "naturalistic" - in their faith would rather fight the atheists because they're atheists - even though these types of believers will lose just as much in a fascist theocracy as the atheists.
Even in the most egregious cases - such as an atheist condemning a preacher for wanting to indiscriminately murder gays - you'll often have even the moderate Christians hem-hawing about their opinion on the matter, or they wait until an atheist says something they disagree with and attack THAT post instead of attacking the pastor who wants to butcher 30 million people - twice as many as Hitler and 0.5 times more than Stalin.
Atheists aren't all about stamping out religion - yet people seem to think that if they agree with an atheist about anything, they're going to end up in Hell or something. Or they think they'd be agreeing with people who are actively trying to kill their religion.
But unlike the theo-fascists, most of us respect the Constitution - including the right to believe in and worship whatever god you personally believe in.
However, the moment it stops being a personal choice and becomes a societal mandate, the fangs and claws come out.
I wish the more moderate Christians would stop acting as though agreeing with an atheist will condemn their religion or their soul to everlasting damnation. More importantly, they need to realize that their religion is not always right.
We know Taz you love watching the US become a backwoods 3rd world nation full of bible thumping scientifically iterate folks who have no clue about upholding the Constitution.
Becoming an Expat to get away from these types as well as folks of your ilk is truly a blessing.
You may think you are getting away but wherever you go, Mat, there you are.
Happiness is an inside job.
So is your discontent.
No one should be afraid of the phrase "In God we trust" especially in an English speaking environment. God is just a reference to the creative force of the universe, and to the united spirit of all mankind, and it doesn't even refer to any specific religion. Even atheists should appreciate this kind of idea, but I doubt they will.
I knew someone would say this - despite the fact that I already countered this argument in my original post.
No, Ozzy, it's not just "In God We Trust." They're also bringing in the 10 Commandments AND Bible verses.
Now, in light of that, do you REALLY think that "In God We Trust" is referencing some generic creating force of the universe?
After all, it's not saying "In Science We Trust" or "In The Big Bang We Trust."
Not everyone believes in a god - of any kind - and not just atheists. Yet we are being told to trust in an entity that we don't even believe exists.
And WHY would we trust a generic creating force? No, the only reason why anyone would need to trust in God is if that god intercedes on our behalf, claims to know what's best for us, and guides our life accordingly. Otherwise, what are we going to trust this god to do? Make sure that the universe always has enough hydrogen for new star formation? Make sure that the laws of gravity stay the same so we don't plunge into the sun or be flung out into space? I dunno!
It's not my fault nor did I have anything to do with what's happening to the US. I'm just wise enough to realize when it's time to get off of a sinking ship and thankful I have the type of career that enables me to work anywhere on this planet.
What's causing your misery and discontent? Why can't you get a grasp on it?
I knew someone would say this - despite the fact that I already countered this argument in my original post.
No, Ozzy, it's not just "In God We Trust." They're also bringing in the 10 Commandments AND Bible verses.
Now, in light of that, do you REALLY think that "In God We Trust" is referencing some generic creating force of the universe?
After all, it's not saying "In Science We Trust" or "In The Big Bang We Trust."
Nor is it saying "In Evolution We Trust"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Not everyone believes in a god - of any kind - and not just atheists. Yet we are being told to trust in an entity that we don't even believe exists.
This is the craziest conditioning of it all! Sure go ahead and tell kids to trust in the "christian god". The US's failing school systems are taking a serious blow by states who push religion in schools. You would think the focus would be on how to improve the quality of education in K-12 grades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
And WHY would we trust a generic creating force? No, the only reason why anyone would need to trust in God is if that god intercedes on our behalf, claims to know what's best for us, and guides our life accordingly. Otherwise, what are we going to trust this god to do? Make sure that the universe always has enough hydrogen for new star formation? Make sure that the laws of gravity stay the same so we don't plunge into the sun or be flung out into space? I dunno!
Indeed. I don't want to make this a political post, but in the US, Religion (particular Right wing Fundamentalist religion) is now pretty much identical with the Republicans.
We could easily not have had Dubhya (I say we.. I'm a limey of course, but you know what I mean) and we could easily have had Sarah Palin. I think would might easily not have had Trump, just as we could easily have not voted to leave Europe.
Reagan seems inevitable now, as well as the recently deceased former president famed for enabling Al Quaida and approving disenfranchising atheists. It is ironic that he was in the right place at the right time when the Russian with a map of Burma on his head run out of money to fight the cold war and Reagan shook hands with a smile and then went to ask his advisors for the first advice ever: "What just happened".
And I don't know whether his rating as a great American is because of this inadvertent outbidding of the CCCP in the cold war or his singlehanded war against a communist plot that didn't exist or for passing whatever religious privilege laws he liked. But I hope I'm dead before America's biggest ever aircraft carrier "USS Dubhya" is sent to police the world for the Baptist State Church of America.
It has been rather covered up just how much like Dubhya Reagan was; he simply went ahead and did what he wanted because he thought God was talking to him Why wouldn't they? It's what Religion leads people to believe, never mind the fundamentalists. If they can Indoctrinate people to believe that that Bible means 'Cut healthcare' by 'feed the poor' and 'the meek shall inherit the earth' means 'donate to evangelism and God will make you rich', and by 'I came to bring not peace, but a sword..' Well that would be what they thought God was telling them, even if it said the opposite, because (Austin Atheists knows) the dumber and more indoctrinated the Republican voter is, the less they actually know about what is in the Bible.
I won't post Mat Dillahunty proving that the OT stated that a foetus was not a human being until birth and God commanded arranged miscarriage (Aka Abortion) if there was any doubt about what the woman had been up to and of course that this was not one of the commandments that Jesus 'Fulfilled' (Aka replaced by Christian rules), but I will say that this Ghost Bible was not based always based on people cherry -picking what they liked, (though Liberl Christians do that all the times) but it is one they are taught by the religious Right and which bears little resemblance to the Bible as it actually exists.
Which is why we quote Obama: 'Read yah bahble' as it makes the shortlist of reasons why people give religion up. Nor will I point up that "Family Values is something Christianity is good for" is certainly not what Jesus taught. He taught that the cult and his Charismatic leadership is all that matters and people should reject their family and follow him. Hellfire - believers Know that but they don't See it. The see only this New Right Wing Version that they have been taught without their ever reading the Book themselves.
I'll just mention that "In God We Trust" was simply one of the Things done ny Right wing politicians and they would rather press the Button and have the world reduced to crackling embers than have it removed. But Ah gotta dream, folks, that one day it will off the money it should never have been slapped onto.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-06-2018 at 12:02 AM..
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I'm a limey of course, but you know what I mean) and we could easily have had Sarah Palin. I think would might easily not have had Trump, just as we could easily have not voted to leave Europe.