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As a catholic christian i believe in hell & purgatory. At Bayside USA (1970-94) Jesus & Mary appeared to the visionary Veronica and she was shown both hell & purgatory. Hell is the place made for Satan & his angels for rebelling against God, human souls who have rejected the God of the bible go there after there earthly death, as they cannot go to be with their maker for eternity as they chose to reject him during their earthly lives. Purgatory is the place believers go for purification for the sins that were not remitted on earth, but after a period they are released. After the final judgement (once christ's 1000 year reign on the new earth ends) then the soles from hell end up in the eternal lake of fire. So the eternal punishment is for those who have chosen to reject their maker. Thus the saying knock & the door will be opened to you & seek & you shall find, that is how myself and millions of practising christians found God, through prayer which is your communion with God. It is just a satanic delusion that these places don't exist.
That's the same crap they tried to peddle to me in the 50s and 60s. Even most practicing Catholics today don't believe it. Hopefully, one day your beliefs will mature.
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Sounds to me as if you are trying to say Jesus went to paradise/heaven the day he died <- wrong.
Jesus went to the grave (KJV hell) the day he died, and so did the thief.- Acts 2:27.
Jesus was in the grave ( biblical hell ) for parts of 3 days before his God resurrected Jesus out of hell (grave)
Since Jesus and the OT both teach the dead are in a sleep-like state then the dead are Not anywhere else.
- Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 and John 11:11-14
So, biblical hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave until one is resurrected - Acts 24:15.
Afterlife implies being more alive after death then before death.
Whereas, resurrection (Rev. 1:18) is future. That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts 24:15.
It says ' there is going to be ' a resurrection.....
That future resurrection takes place during Jesus' coming 1,000-year reign over Earth for a thousand years.
Fair point. I like hearing others points of view, but I don't like the hell concept.
To which hell concept are you referring ______________ The Bible's or some religious-myth hell just taught as Scripture.
The Bible's hell is simply mankind's stone-cold temporary grave for the sleeping dead.
That is why Jesus and the OT both teach the dead are in a sleep-like state.
- please see -> Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 and John 11:11-14.
Can you think of anyone righteous who went to hell the day he died ___________
The day righteous Jesus died he went to biblical hell as per Acts 2:27.
Jesus was in biblical hell ( grave ) until his God resurrected Jesus out of hell/grave.
Eternal torture. Now think about that for a moment. According to some Christians, doing just one sin disqualifies you from getting into heaven, because god is perfect and no unclean thing can be in gods presence. The only way you can be forgiven of your sins is to accept Jesus, and if you don't accept jesus, you go to hell for eternity. That is just frankly insane imo. The concept of hell turns god into a sadist. I mean, I believe wicked people are judged by god when they die, but eternal torture in hell is just flat out cruel and evil.
Flat our cruel and evil and WRONG.
The dead know nothing ( No bliss/ No pain ) - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; John 11:11-14
The Bible's hell is temporary and comes to a final end according to Revelation 20:13-14.
Please notice that after everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' ( meaning resurrected out of the grave / biblical hell)
Then, emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell.
Me neither. That's why I made up my mind I wasn't going.
Made up your mind you are Not going to which hell ___________
The Bible's hell, or some religious-myth hell teaching __________
The dead go to 'biblical hell' because the Bible's hell is simply mankind's stone-cold temporary grave.
Temporary grave for the sleeping dead according to Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures:
- Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.
Death is why at death Jesus went to hell according to gospel writer Luke at Acts 2:27
Dead Jesus remained in death's deep sleep until his God resurrected dead Jesus out of biblical hell / grave.
Correct, there is no concept of time in Heaven. I personally believe in the appearances of the BVM at places like Bayside & Medjugorje where many miracles have been performed. Veronica & many of the churches saints have been shown visions of both hell & purgatory and the catholic church teaches both exist.
When my Father died i read the catechism on the subject and it said the soul in the fires of Purgatory could be aided by having masses said for his soul as well as prayers, almsgiving etc. I continued to do all these things, about 18 months after he had died i had what i thought was a dream about a person on the other side of a river with his back turned to me, dancing out of his skin, he suddenly turned around with a big smile on his face & i recognised him as my Father. Next day i did'ent give it any significance until i got to my parents house, i found that the picture of the Sacred Heart of Jesus had been removed from the living room and in its place was a frame holding both my fathers communion/baptismal certificates and the Sacred Heart picture was now in my fathers room. When i asked my mother why she had swopped them around after all these years, she said she just had a notion to do it. I new then that this was no coincidence, the dream i had the previous night was notice that my efforts had borne fruit and he was now released from purgatory.
You are correct Jesus went down to hell for 3 days where he released Adam & Eve etc before he eventually Ascended back to his father. On purgatory, this is why catholics should prayer for the souls of deceased relatives, they would spend less time there if people prayed for them & did Gods will.It is in Satan's interest to have us all believe that hell does not exist, one of the visions revealed crying & pleading souls and the high pitched laughter of the demons, as they had got them where they wanted them, it is said the demons torture souls for fun, as they had rebelled on account of the creation of man. My internet time is up, i hope you found it informative, as ever prayer is the key.
You are correct Jesus went down to hell for 3 days where he released Adam & Eve etc before he eventually Ascended back to his father. On purgatory, this is why catholics should prayer for the souls of deceased relatives, they would spend less time there if people prayed for them & did Gods will.It is in Satan's interest to have us all believe that hell does not exist, one of the visions revealed crying & pleading souls and the high pitched laughter of the demons, as they had got them where they wanted them, it is said the demons torture souls for fun, as they had rebelled on account of the creation of man. My internet time is up, i hope you found it informative, as ever prayer is the key.
As a catholic christian i believe in hell & purgatory. At Bayside USA (1970-94) Jesus & Mary appeared to the visionary Veronica and she was shown both hell & purgatory. Hell is the place made for Satan & his angels for rebelling against God, human souls who have rejected the God of the bible go there after there earthly death, as they cannot go to be with their maker for eternity as they chose to reject him during their earthly lives. Purgatory is the place believers go for purification for the sins that were not remitted on earth, but after a period they are released. After the final judgement (once christ's 1000 year reign on the new earth ends) then the soles from hell end up in the eternal lake of fire. So the eternal punishment is for those who have chosen to reject their maker. Thus the saying knock & the door will be opened to you & seek & you shall find, that is how myself and millions of practising christians found God, through prayer which is your communion with God. It is just a satanic delusion that these places don't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN600
Correct, there is no concept of time in Heaven. I personally believe in the appearances of the BVM at places like Bayside & Medjugorje where many miracles have been performed. Veronica & many of the churches saints have been shown visions of both hell & purgatory and the catholic church teaches both exist.
When my Father died i read the catechism on the subject and it said the soul in the fires of Purgatory could be aided by having masses said for his soul as well as prayers, almsgiving etc. I continued to do all these things, about 18 months after he had died i had what i thought was a dream about a person on the other side of a river with his back turned to me, dancing out of his skin, he suddenly turned around with a big smile on his face & i recognised him as my Father. Next day i did'ent give it any significance until i got to my parents house, i found that the picture of the Sacred Heart of Jesus had been removed from the living room and in its place was a frame holding both my fathers communion/baptismal certificates and the Sacred Heart picture was now in my fathers room. When i asked my mother why she had swopped them around after all these years, she said she just had a notion to do it. I new then that this was no coincidence, the dream i had the previous night was notice that my efforts had borne fruit and he was now released from purgatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN600
You are correct Jesus went down to hell for 3 days where he released Adam & Eve etc before he eventually Ascended back to his father. On purgatory, this is why catholics should prayer for the souls of deceased relatives, they would spend less time there if people prayed for them & did Gods will.It is in Satan's interest to have us all believe that hell does not exist, one of the visions revealed crying & pleading souls and the high pitched laughter of the demons, as they had got them where they wanted them, it is said the demons torture souls for fun, as they had rebelled on account of the creation of man. My internet time is up, i hope you found it informative, as ever prayer is the key.
That's the same crap they tried to peddle to me in the 50s and 60s. Even most practicing Catholics today don't believe it. Hopefully, one day your beliefs will mature.
People can only mature if they actually study the religion they are speaking of, every scripture of hell pertains to Sukkot and the outer court of Gentiles, and every Gentile will go to that court where there is salvation, where all the modern Gentile Christians are going, if a Christian tells you that you are going to hell, guess what?
Fortunately, hell IS the outer court, and THERE IS SALVATION.
We are shown flat out what happens, the works of every man will be tested in the lake of fire, and allthough the majority of us will burn with our works, we ourselves are still saved, and even blessed, but the comparison to some is to show a hell because what could have been, and still, after this, we continue on our ladder. I think our biggest problem is our thinking that we only began here in our mother's womb, and I just know that aint the case, I believe me and you was having shots some place before this earth was even created.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 06-16-2019 at 02:38 PM..
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