Does the Afterlife have a literal Hell? (prophecies, morality, cross)

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by old_cold

Ruth, the brain is always registering and storing things we do not consciously pay attention to.
There's no way of knowing how much one 'knows' as demonstrated by 'reconstruction' by hypnosis or even examination, like from police investigators talking to witnesses to an accident...i.e.....
"Oh yes, the license plate did have the numbers 384". or even something so seemingly inconsequential that there were Geraniums planted beside the road.
The 'blind' might even be able to describe the relative but cannot prove he was never given a description during conversation..."Jane was short and plump but had this lovely black hair and green eyes"
You're reading an article about growing geraniums after seeing but dismissing one just before it about 'snails' because it didn't interest you. But your brain retained that info and you may swear you knew nothing about 'snails' or how it's possible they appeared in your dreams....or your NDE (substitute snail for angel or whatever)

This largely correct, but some things can be altered by the dreamer suggesting that they are from the subconscious and others cannot.

[old_cold]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

This largely correct, but some things can be altered by the dreamer suggesting that they are from the subconscious and others cannot.

And if you don't know or believe they may be from the subconscious?
What are you to give credence to? And why?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by old_cold

And if you don't know or believe they may be from the subconscious?
What are you to give credence to? And why?

My experiences in altered states convince me that there is a truth to aspects of the experiences that reveal our true Reality. Those that cannot be altered by the meditator or dreamer reflect that Reality.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by allenk893

You can only define what you know of as "existence" from your singular reality.

It's not my reality.

If I cease to exist, this reality still exists.

If I never existed, this reality would still exist.

Originally Posted by allenk893

The spiritual world existed before the physical and the Earth itself and all life therein were modeled after what already was in the kingdom of Heaven.

That's a subjective view with no scientific basis. It doesn't even have a Western religious basis.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

No. Why would they all have the same exact vision?

Are you suggesting there is one Heaven and one vision for Lutherans, and another for Baptists, and then another for Methodists and still another for African Methodists and so on?

How many Heavens are there?

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

All humans have, if not a belief in an afterlife, a cultural reference to it, though. Humans have been making burials with grave goods for thousands of years, so there's no way to find someone, who doesn't have any cultural references to that.

And, why?

Because plants come out of the ground.

Logically, then, if you put a dead human into the ground, they'll come back, right?

- So, logically--
- If she weighs the same as a duck...
- she's made of wood.
- And therefore?
- A witch!

Dumb yourself down to a dog.

That's how "smart" humans were until a few centuries ago.

Traditions Die Hard. Some Die Harder. What was the sequel to that?

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

And last, but by no means least among the arguments in favor of the experience being indicative of an other-worldly "real" place or dimension, is the fact that people who were born blind can see during their NDE. How could they see, and report all the sights of their experience, if they've never experienced sight in their lifetime?

Because they didn't see anything.

The data is invalid, because it's suspect for primarily two reasons. First, none of the experiences are "recent" by any stretch of the imagination. The blind people were interviewed 10, 15, 20, 25 even 30 years after-the-fact.

Memories change. People add things, people delete things and and the memories are shaped and altered by the experiences of others.

Second, the interviews were improperly conducted.

There is one and only one correct and proper way to conduct any interview of any kind, and any question that steers, leads, suggests, implies, biases or prejudices is invalid and renders the information suspect.

Police rarely conduct proper interviews, and that's one of many reasons why innocent people confess, and why innocent people are wrongly convicted.

"Was she wearing a blue t-shirt?" is an improper question that taints the interview because it engages in steering and leading, plus it is suggestive and implicating.

A proper question would be "Describe her clothing" or "What was she wearing?" and you'll notice there are no adjectives.

The only proper question for NDEs is "Describe your experience" and let the audio or video tape roll.

No questions should ever be asked and their experience, whatever it is, is what it is.

So, "What kind of light did you see?" is an improper question that steers, leads, suggests and implies, making the interview tainted, because people will say they saw a light, even when they didn't, because they think that's what the interviewer wants to hear, or that it is the correct answer, or they'll doubt their own memory, believing their memory is somehow defective and they did see a light, but don't remember it.

Why? Because that's what people do, and there are hundreds of studies in US, UK, Canada, Australia and other countries that prove that.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

A lifetime of cultural images? How would that work, with a 5- or 10- or 15-year-old child?

It only needs to work once. You just have to tell a child that grandma, grandpa or Auntie Mae is in Heaven, and they're contaminated.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Especially for kids raised with no religious influence at all?

Everyone living on Earth for the past 25,000 years has been exposed to religion.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

My experiences...

Are purely subjective. When you die, your subjective experiences die, too, and we won't have to put up with that nonsense any more.

[HeelaMonster]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

This largely correct, but some things can be altered by the dreamer suggesting that they are from the subconscious and others cannot.

That may also be correct, but it does not follow that dreams (or the component of dreams that cannot be altered) come from OUTSIDE the brain of the dreamer. Assuming that's where you were leading with that observation?

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

My experiences in altered states convince me that there is a truth to aspects of the experiences that reveal our true Reality. Those that cannot be altered by the meditator or dreamer reflect that Reality.

Not entirely clear what that means (...even with my newfound undertanding of "Reality," thanks again for that). But see above.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Are you suggesting there is one Heaven and one vision for Lutherans, and another for Baptists, and then another for Methodists and still another for African Methodists and so on?

How many Heavens are there?
.

You're assuming all NDE-ers have a heavenly vision, that's your error. That's not what the experience is about for many of them. I explained this before, but you're not bothering to read and understand the information.

End of discussion.

[OzzyRules]

If questioners understood that doubt is hell already, then no one would even care about this question. Seeing heaven is enough to realize what hell really is.

"He fashioned hell for the inquisitive."
Saint Augustine

[normstad]

Originally Posted by Monastic555

Do you think that the Afterlife has a literal Hell? By that I mean the Hell as taught by Islamics and Christians, that is, an actual place where people are burning in fire, tortured for all Eternity.
I believe the wicked should be punished. But why for*all eternity? That would be the height of Cruelty. Should they not get a chance to redeem themselves? According to those Bible-teachings, what disturbs me is that the torture will be eternal.

First of all there has to be a literal afterlife.

Good luck showing us how we could know (not believe, but KNOW), how it exists.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

You're assuming all NDE-ers have a heavenly vision, that's your error. That's not what the experience is about for many of them. I explained this before, but you're not bothering to read and understand the information.

End of discussion.

Another flounce!

[mordant]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

My experiences in altered states convince me that there is a truth to aspects of the experiences that reveal our true Reality. Those that cannot be altered by the meditator or dreamer reflect that Reality.

Or they may reflect any number of other things. Something as prosaic as not being able to reach a threshold of some neurotransmitter at the moment, for example. We haven't studied lucid dreaming enough to know that some aspect of a dream you can't influence = bedrock reality. What we DO know however is that it's unlikely to be a single factor with a simple, direct causal relationship, so your conclusion is suspicious on that count alone.