Comparing Atheism and Christianity (Commandment, morals, Buddhism, Islam)

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew

B. If God does exist, you have displayed utter hubris in positioning yourself as a judge of God's actions. I dare say such hubris will not go unpunished.

What TonT has shown is his developed moral standard which is one of our primary tasks as God's children. What you are showing is a void of any moral standard suggesting an anemic moral development relying on subservience to "precept and doctrines of men." ANY sane, loving, decent, human being would decry such barbaric brutality as a complete lack of morality, NOT moral because God can do whatever God wants! An absurd belief in the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible words "written in ink" has corrupted any sense of moral standards. That is the opposite of what our God wants from us. We are to become independent mature, adult moral arbiters NOT mindless robotic acceptors of whatever we think God had men write in a book! This exchange has been extremely disturbing and heartbreaking. The graphic descriptions presented have torn my heart asunder and should have done so to ANY decent human being. If it didn't. TonT has proven his point about the danger and evil religious belief can have on human morality.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew

Let's hold hands and walk through some logic together...

A. If God does not exist, then there is no objective standard for human morality. You can go on about your moral judgement, but without any reference to a God who created us humans, you are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to your moral judgements being meaningless if morality is relative. The infanticide practiced by the Greeks of antiquity, for instance, did not violate their customs. If you were a Greek living at that time, you wouldn't necessarily see anything wrong with infanticide, either.

B. If God does exist, you have displayed utter hubris in positioning yourself as a judge of God's actions. I dare say such hubris will not go unpunished.

Your logic is fatally flawed.

A god is not required for objective morality.

Objective morality is no different than objective reality, and both are based upon Truths.

Those Truths may be unknown to Mortal Men for a time.

For example, that [biological] cells exist is objective reality, and thus a Truth, but the existence of cells was unknown to Mortal Men until the year 1607.

The fact that is so does not diminish objective reality or Truth -- it just means it took time and technology for Mortal Men to discover the Truth.

Your logic is also circular and contradictory.

Your god commanded Mortal Men to engage in immorality.

You cannot simultaneously claim that only god knows objective morality while that same god commanded Mortal Men to be immoral and then to top it off, claim that Mortal Men cannot know objective morality.

Gods condoned slavery and established rules for slavery, but never once told Mortal Men that slavery was wrong.

The Muslim god said slaves had to live in your house, under your roof, or your punishment was death; that the slave must be educated to read and write and trained in a trade, or your punishment was death; that if you physically abused a slave, your punishment was death; and that if the slave converts to Islam, the slave must be freed.

In the Ottoman Empire the last execution of a slave-owner was in 1874 (for physically abusing a slave) just prior to the Tanzimat Reforms that banned slavery.

The Judaeo-christian god was far more savage and brutal in the treatment of slaves than the Muslim god.

Mortal Men came to the conclusion that slavery was wrong on their own, without the help of any gods.

That makes gods morally inferior to Mortal Men.

Mortal Men will come to discover objective morality on their own.

Contrary to what you claim, I am in a position to judge any god for his immorality, lack of ethics and the crimes he committed.

If your god is unable to create a situation in which every person on Earth may prosper and enjoy life, then your god is weak and undeserving of nothing less than utter contempt.

I have not been punished by any god ever for judging them and I never will be.

Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew

Why are you so mad at God? What did God do to you for your bloomers to be in such a bunch?

You flounced.

You are so scared you can't even answer the questions I posed.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew

And love God with all your heart! Yes, that's right!



No! If I took comfort in that I would make zero effort to warn you. I wouldn't do anything that might change your course.

It has to be you that wants it, though. I understand that I'm likely wasting time. All I can do is try to get through to you that if you're still breathing you have a limited-tiime opportunity to change your fate. But you'd have to be humble and repent. I think that would be difficult for you to do, but don't let your pride be what ultimately condemns you. Don't let the opinions of others influence your decisions. You'll be standing alone on that day.

I have been hearing this warning since before you were born. But I also outgrew the foundationless juvenile foolishness of subscribing to a belief in eternal damnation before you were born.

And I really am tired of the nonsense.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

What TonT has shown is his developed moral standard which is one of our primary tasks as God's children. What you are showing is a void of any moral standard suggesting an anemic moral development relying on subservience to "precept and doctrines of men." ANY sane, loving, decent, human being would decry such barbaric brutality as a complete lack of morality, NOT moral because God can do whatever God wants! An absurd belief in the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible words "written in ink" has corrupted any sense of moral standards. That is the opposite of what our God wants from us. We are to become independent mature, adult moral arbiters NOT mindless robotic acceptors of whatever we think God had men write in a book! This exchange has been extremely disturbing and heartbreaking. The graphic descriptions presented have torn my heart asunder and should have done so to ANY decent human being. If it didn't. TonT has proven his point about the danger and evil religious belief can have on human morality.

Are we on the same side? Well, occasionally.

[Iwasmadenew]

Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense

Are we on the same side? Well, occasionally.

So you both believe that God exists and that the Bible contains errors? That's progress. Good for you!

[Iwasmadenew]

Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense

I have been hearing this warning since before you were born. But I also outgrew the foundationless juvenile foolishness of subscribing to a belief in eternal damnation before you were born.

Save your speech for judgement day (though it will do you no good, at that point).

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew

Save your speech for judgement day (though it will do you no good, at that point).

The typical christian threat.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew

And love God with all your heart! Yes, that's right!



No! If I took comfort in that I would make zero effort to warn you. I wouldn't do anything that might change your course.

It has to be you that wants it, though. I understand that I'm likely wasting time. All I can do is try to get through to you that if you're still breathing you have a limited-tiime opportunity to change your fate. But you'd have to be humble and repent. I think that would be difficult for you to do, but don't let your pride be what ultimately condemns you. Don't let the opinions of others influence your decisions. You'll be standing alone on that day.

You do realise that, if the Muslims are right, you'll be in exactly the same position?

[Iwasmadenew]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

You do realise that, if the Muslims are right, you'll be in exactly the same position?

You want to compare Christianity to Islam? How about Buddhism?

I thought not.

You’re screwed either way.

[elyn02]

Saying people are screwed, save your speech, judgment day, none will be good, is not the speech of a caring god. But you care. I see. You contradict something. Is it yourself or your god?