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I was with you right up to that last part, without cause but "we are saying the cause was..."
I for one have no problem suggesting the universe came into being without cause, as in without willful action, so think again about that assumption anyway or do we need to better define our terms again?
I was expecting to get picked out for saying 'we are saying ...'. I am saying it, not 'we'. But what I was meaning is that no 'uncaused' creator is needed to cause the universe but if such a 'creator' was needed then that creator would itself need a cause.
I hope I am being clearer and that you get what I mean.
I usually ignore your comments, but I'm feeling generous today...
Yes, because I can, and do, refute the low quality videos you post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
"defend Christianity using their own words"
I'm just an amateur apologist, so the case I am capable of making will be inferior to a case made by a skilled, more knowledgeable apologist. If you are truly interested in validating the truth of your worldview, wouldn't you seek and challenge the best presentation of the argument, rather than an inferior presentation of it?
True, but you neither seek nor challenge the best. You post arguments that refute your position, and then avoid ALL posts that explain how and why your low quality videos are wrong, or ad hominem the people making the (usually) high quality responses.
So you can stop pretending you are the one being rational or honest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
Otherwise, you are not really refuting Christianity. This is your worldview we're talking about! You should take it more seriously than that.
Seriously? You mean such as reading the NT in it's original Koine Greek? That is me. Or reading the early church fathers, from Justin Martyr to Eusebius? That is again me. Or reading historians such as Tacitus or Dio Cassius? Hi again. Or writing trigram analysis software that PROVES the synoptic gospels are NOT independent eyewitness accounts? That too is me, Harry Diogenes.
I could write a book using the 20 years of my study of the history of the early Christian church, except others have already done this. And they are confirming what I have independently discovered. So I do not need to watch a video of someone who can not even read Greek, and bases his world view on an idea already proven false, because I and professional historians have already refuted that video.
You are still on the starting line with your weak apologists. I am past the finishing line and drinking the champagne until I find a better opponent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
Challenging the best presentation of an argument is the only true test of your challenges to Christianity and the shortest route to determining if you are truly capable of refuting the arguments.
Correct. When will you start doing this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
What I imagine Harry thinking...
You need to work with data that you have, not what you imagine. Otherwise you will be, as usual, wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
No! I won't watch any video containing a high quality argument. I'd much rather challenge a weaker presentation of an argument by sparring with some stranger on the internet. That's how I prefer to assess my conclusions about the ultimate truth of reality and the existence of God.
Does that sound like an intellectually sound approach for such important life questions?
First, I use my time as I want to, not because you want me to watch some low quality video. If you want me to do that, then you need to pay me. My rates range from 30 Euros pro Stunde to 200.
But no, your question begging straw man is not an intellectually sound approach for such important life questions. But it has nothing to do with my posts. And you know this, that is why you run away from the questions we ask, or reply with ad hoc excuses that ignore the evidence you do not like.
You do not post high quality arguments, you post videos that refute the position you are trying to defend. And you presume the stranger on the internet is presenting a weaker argument. No, you pretend they are presenting a weaker argument.
>>> the topic of the thread: Comparing Atheism and Christianity
This thread is intended for a debate/discussion comparing how the two worldviews answer some of "life's big questions."
>>>the topic of the video I posted: "Debate: Does Physics Point to Theism?"
-----
TRANS, if you don't like the videos I post, simply don't watch them. Easy solution!
Actually, if you want to know a secret, you are free to ignore this entire thread and to refrain from commenting or watching any of the videos I post. Be free! No one's forcing you to be here. That's your choice. Better to stay away of what's triggering you than to keep getting worked up about something you can't change.
Well, since you started the thread You can say what the intent was. I can only say that if anyone had reported your vid as not on topic, the Mods would decide whether to blot it, not you.
Nor do you get to tell me that we should just put up with one - sided spamming of the thread. We are not stupid and we know what spamming looks like. Consideration of the vid or whatever is ignored and another vid is posted.
the mods will be watching this as well, so, Friendly warning; keep it relevant.
Well, since you started the thread You can say what the intent was. I can only say that if anyone had reported your vid as not on topic, the Mods would decide whether to blot it, not you.
Nor do you get to tell me that we should just put up with one - sided spamming of the thread. We are not stupid and we know what spamming looks like. Consideration of the vid or whatever is ignored and another vid is posted.
the mods will be watching this as well, so, Friendly warning; keep it relevant.
Such a weak response I’m not sure why you bothered. Actually, I do know why you bothered. It’s a compulsion. You’re hoping that any response, no matter how weak, will be interpreted as a rebuttal by the many gullible ‘lurkers’ you assume are reading this thread.
Such a weak response I’m not sure why you bothered. Actually, I do know why you bothered. It’s a compulsion. You’re hoping that any response, no matter how weak, will be interpreted as a rebuttal by the many gullible ‘lurkers’ you assume are reading this thread.
Such a weak response I’m not sure why you bothered. Actually, I do know why you bothered. It’s a compulsion. You’re hoping that any response, no matter how weak, will be interpreted as a rebuttal by the many gullible ‘lurkers’ you assume are reading this thread.
Such a weak response I’m not sure why you bothered. Actually, I do know why you bothered. It’s a compulsion. You’re hoping that any response, no matter how weak, will be interpreted as a rebuttal by the many gullible ‘lurkers’ you assume are reading this thread.
You feel it necessary to criticize Trans about his response, yet decline to respond to Harry’s lengthy description of his credentials?
This selective posting, where you ignore the most substantive comments, does you no credit.
You spend your time telling me (repeatedly) that you don't have time for DM's, but you don't have time for DM's?? That comes across as a disingenuous excuse. You complain a lot about how pointless this forum is, but you're not interested in trying a different, possibly better, approach? I'm not so sure you're as interested in a genuine conversation as you claim.
What too much time I spend is plain to see by way of the comments I post in this thread and others...
My usual morning routine is a round of reading the news from local, national and international news sites. That takes awhile, because I read a fair amount from there. Then I move onto my emails where I exchange emails with friends and family. That too takes awhile, especially as of late when everyone is trying to stay in closer touch. After that, I check into this forum just for kicks and for as long as I still have before my wife and I get on with other things a little more important to both of us. Typically beginning with lunch. So no I don't have time for DMs in addition to the time I spend in this general forum. That's where I draw the line anyway...
Assuming or presuming that I am in any way disingenuous is also not doing you any favors, but no matter. Obviously we all do as we prefer in this forum, and you are free to do as you wish. Just like me. All the best either way, but try not to misrepresent me if you might do the both of us that favor.
Better yet, let people find their own videos instead of you attempting to control what other people watch.
Something to think about, especially for some people to think about...
Anyone interested in any subject beyond the average is likely to do their own reading and research (whether it be articles, books, videos, documentaries, comics, etc.) Enough to generally consider before landing where we do with our respective opinions and points of view. I tend to believe this forum is more about "comparing notes" on what we know or think about the topics of these threads, in our own words, rather than play the game of forever Googling whatever propaganda supports one's view.
I don't really consider that "attempting to control what other people watch," because no one has to watch anything here. Reference to other sources of information is part of the "comparing notes" process too of course. The call for supporting facts to justify opinion is also common in this forum. I recommend books and pass along related articles all the time.
Coming to think of it, I suppose if videos is the way for others to share or justify their thinking instead, why not? Mostly for me it's again a time thing. I don't have the time and I'm just not inclined to stop scanning and commenting in this forum to watch videos as a rule. Comes a point where one begins to recognize when someone is using a lot of unworthy source material for their opinion too. Have to admit that is also a subjective call though, so videos and source material of any sort we should expect I suppose.
Also for us to pass judgement upon as we will of course. To view or not to view, that is the question...
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