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God FAILED to achieve the result He intended when He created humankind. That God is a LOSER!
My God never existed to begin with, and so is utterly blameless.
Lol that is such a fundimental approach to understanding what God said concering making man in his image and likeness. You seem to think God was talking about way back when, when God was talking about the future. Tis a prophesy of that which is to come.
Okay, I misinterpreted. The end result being the same...that gets back to what MysticPhd said about what we are requiring God to be.
I'm a Christian. You may not like my contemplative focus, but that doesn't exclude me. There's a long history of contemplatives and mystics in Christianity. I've chosen to explain my faith as I live it, rather than defend it on historical grounds.
The base common denominator among believers is requiring God to exist. It is possible, now, to scientifically explain the universe as a naturally occurring process. An aloof God who never intervenes is exactly like a God who never existed to begin with. Since God cannot be relied on during times of extreme peril anyway, His services are no longer required. We can safely dismiss God.
Lol that is such a fundimental approach to understanding what God said concering making man in his image and likeness. You seem to think God was talking about way back when, when God was talking about the future. Tis a prophesy of that which is to come.
If god is omnipotent and omniscient, then the outcome has always been predetermined and foreknown. What was point?
Is God fully omnipotent and omniscient? Or does God fail?
If god is omnipotent and omniscient, then the outcome has always been predetermined and foreknown. What was point?
Is God fully omnipotent and omniscient? Or does God fail?
Yes and no. God knows full well what He will do, but not what man will do until man sets their heart on the matter. The good things is is that God is greater then our hearts and will accomplish all His desire.
Humanity (all of humanity) will be made in the image and likeness of God.
Yes and no. God knows full well what He will do, but not what man will do until man sets their heart on the matter. The good things is is that God is greater then our hearts and will accomplish all His desire.
Humanity (all of humanity) will be made in the image and likeness of God.
Jesus being the firstfruit of the WHOLE harvest.
This is based on the popular assumption that God has promised humans with free will. Where exactly has God promised humans free will?
This is based on the popular assumption that God has promised humans with free will. Where exactly has God promised humans free will?
I'm also not a believer in the necessity of "free will" and have never bought that argument. Nor do I require anything of God other than "I Am:" Being. All the stuff about what God should be or shouldn't be doesn't factor in. We see a piece of reality, not the whole. We "see though a glass darkly..." Science is still evolving. Human consciousness is still evolving. Nothing is fully explained, but in process of being explained and discovered.
I'm also not a believer in the necessity of "free will" and have never bought that argument. Nor do I require anything of God other than "I Am:" Being. All the stuff about what God should be or shouldn't be doesn't factor in. We see a piece of reality, not the whole. We "see though a glass darkly..." Science is still evolving. Human consciousness is still evolving. Nothing is fully explained, but in process of being explained and discovered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmom2
We see a piece of reality, not the whole.
This at least I agree with. The piece of reality that we now comprehend is immensely greater now than it was for ancient people, however. This is due to careful analysis and experimentation. It's known as empirical observation.
Ancient people used the process of "make it up and declare it to be true" in attempting to understand reality. "Make it up and declare it to be true" is NOT a useful in the process of collecting empirical information.
Your question is certainly valid. By "based on history" I only mean that I don't think Christianity must be historically accurate (i.e. consistent details in the gospels, texts free of contradictions, etc) to be true, not that faith is able to defy reality. But what separates it from just wishful thinking is how it is lived in the life of the practitioner. The spiritual life is one of training oneself away from ego-based behaviors, emotions, and thoughts, and toward agape love. Reality is going to happen regardless of what you believe. Disasters happen, people get sick...Jesus got crucified...life is suffering. That's a given in most spiritual traditions (that I've studied).
The way out of suffering isn't that one's belief will change reality, but that one's belief will change the person when dealing with reality. When someone is suddenly stricken with a disease, how do they behave? Wishful thinking will do nothing for them. Years of spiritual training will. I know this from experience in my own life and how I handle all the pain and tragedy as a person of faith vs. before. None of the requires a belief in God, though. My husband is an atheist and Buddhist and our paths are remarkably similar in spite of completely different systems.
I don't see a broken world as evidence that there isn't a God, nor do I expect God to fix reality. As one my teachers said "the answer to every prayer is God" not a different outcome. I still hope for things to be better, try to make them better, and I believe that God will reconcile all things unto himself in the end, but certainly not in the present reality.
Nicely put, but isn't something not "historically accurate" to begin with a good reason to question the rest? At least that from the start? With fair and reasonable skepticism? At least for me, when I recognize there is more inaccuracy than really should be all considered, I can't help but question the whole. Something like when I notice mold growing at the top of a tub of sour cream. I throw the whole thing out...
Then you bring in the question of suffering and no doubt we all have a strong longing for relief when it comes to suffering. A powerful will to hope for better, for help, but when such emotions so commonly "cloud" our sense of what is accurately going on around us, the truth all too often takes a back seat to all manner of falsehoods that might make some people feel better in times of need, but what is the real issue here? Truth or feeling better?
How you distinguish "wishful thinking" from wishing God will help, I really don't know, but so far I've not been able to find any rational manner in which to do so. "Years of spiritual training" seems more like years of convincing oneself what for many is simply impossible to believe given all evidence to the contrary.
This thread has really, at this point, devolved into a bunch of people that don't believe anyway, all trying to hash out what Christians actually believe.
I've corrected several false notions on here, and gotten insulted for it. It's quite sad, actually. It proves that the OP and the others here simply do not wish to participate in a rational discussion with Christians.
1. It's rather impossible to figure out "what chistians actually believe" since you're all divided into little groups that argue among yourselves about what christianity actually believes.
2. You've not corrected anything. You've stated your own personal opinion about your faith, and faith is not fact.
3. There are some rational christians on this forum. Most of us on the other side of the discussion do not believe you are one of them.
In the OT it is said God destroyed all the wicked from off the earth and you guys complain about that, so now for those same people God looks like He is doing nothing and you complain about that.
Gods in a lose, lose situation with mans understanding.
P.S. I don't believe in a literal flood but most of you guys believe the scriptures are talking about a literal flood so the point stands.
How is it possible that an all powerful god is in a lose lose situation?
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