The R&S Pantheism Thread (mythology, atheist, quote, God)
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Yes, if theist will not take heed, it's the least you can do.
At least Mystic grudgingly acknowledged my Best. But it makes no difference in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Water
This is my take on Pantheism (which I only heard of recently)
Believers couldn't provide the slightest scintilla of evidence to support the existence of a god, so they simply re-invent/define "god" as to be "everything".
...
We habitually used to say 'Not a shred of evidence' before we gave up even trying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Then instead of denying without explanation like a dummy, tell me what the hell IS the reason things exist????
Nobody really knows. That is the honest and logical answer. We have done this Soooo many times, and you repeat the same illogical justification of a Faith - claim every time, pretty much as the other god -apologists do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Water
You foolishly got it bass ackward. FOOLishly.
Another one to suss Mystic. Quite a long list by now.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-24-2021 at 03:27 PM..
I don't NEED an argument, YOU do. YOU are the one asserting a crock of BS as truth, not me. Got it? Ergo the burden of proof is on YOU, old chum!!! And my proof is the utter lack of evidence supporting your BS.
Nope.
Now you talk about, "The Burden of Proof".
That obligation is upon the one making the "extraordinary", "remarkable", or "new" claim.
Well..."God Exists" has been sooooooo prolific, for sooooooo long...it is considered a "Standard of Human Understanding".
When a concept reaches a "saturation point" that is to such a degree that it is considered to be "The Standard"...a position that deviates from that would be the "extraordinary/remarkable/new claim" that will have to prove itself against the long established standard.
Belief in God has been the "norm" (8to9 out of 10) for THOOOOOOOUSANDS of years. It's the "incumbent position"...the "ruling viewpoint"...the "champion concept"!
That concept does not have to prove itself...it currently "holds office"! It's upon the challenger (Atheism) to prove itself.
So far it's gotten steamrolled and flattened, in every "race". If it were seen as an "election"...Atheism would be viewed as being defeated in the biggest landslide EVER.
Here we have the Challenger with a 1W-9L record "calling out" the REEEEEEEIGNING, AND DEFENNNNNNDING, UNNNNNN-DE-FEATED, CHAAAAAAAM-PI-OOOOOOON CONNNNNNNCEPT, OOOOOOF THE WORRRRRRRLD...and demand it "prove" itself.
Also, I hold Atheism in higher regard, and view it as superior, to most concepts...and certainly above all organized religious dogma. I'm just pointing out the REALITY as to what "The Way Of The World" is.
Just like Galileo had to PROVE the universe DOES NOT revolve around the Earth, since that concept was in opposition to the "long established standard" that it did...the Atheists will have to PROVE God DOES NOT exist, if they want their concept to be accepted as valid.
BTW...good luck with that. It will be much harder for the Atheists than it was for Galileo...since he was right, and they are wrong (about God not existing).
The "God Exists" concept has "taken on all challengers" for thousands of years and "dusted them" like they weren't even there!!
I've told you this before. Things don't exist for a "reason", they just exist. PPPPEEEERRRRIIIIIIOOOOOOD. End of Story. Got it, (like a) DUMMY???
It speaks volumes about your intellect that you THINK "things JUST EXIST for some inscrutable non-reason" is an OBJECTIVE and sufficient reason to reject the title God for that "inscrutable JUST IS non-reason." That is a sad, very sad, fundamentalist atheist state of mind just as bad as the fundamentalist theist state of mind.
Nope.
Now you talk about, "The Burden of Proof".
That obligation is upon the one making the "extraordinary", "remarkable", or "new" claim.
Well..."God Exists" has been sooooooo prolific, for sooooooo long...it is considered a "Standard of Human Understanding".
When a concept reaches a "saturation point" that is to such a degree that it is considered to be "The Standard"...a position that deviates from that would be the "extraordinary/remarkable/new claim" that will have to prove itself against the long established standard.
Belief in God has been the "norm" (8to9 out of 10) for THOOOOOOOUSANDS of years. It's the "incumbent position"...the "ruling viewpoint"...the "champion concept"!
That concept does not have to prove itself...it currently "holds office"! It's upon the challenger (Atheism) to prove itself.
So far it's gotten steamrolled and flattened, in every "race". If it were seen as an "election"...Atheism would be viewed as being defeated in the biggest landslide EVER.
Here we have the Challenger with a 1W-9L record "calling out" the REEEEEEEIGNING, AND DEFENNNNNNDING, UNNNNNN-DE-FEATED, CHAAAAAAAM-PI-OOOOOOON CONNNNNNNCEPT, OOOOOOF THE WORRRRRRRLD...and demand it "prove" itself.
Also, I hold Atheism in higher regard, and view it as superior, to most concepts...and certainly above all organized religious dogma. I'm just pointing out the REALITY as to what "The Way Of The World" is.
Just like Galileo had to PROVE the universe DOES NOT revolve around the Earth, since that concept was in opposition to the "long established standard" that it did...the Atheists will have to PROVE God DOES NOT exist, if they want their concept to be accepted as valid.
BTW...good luck with that. It will be much harder for the Atheists than it was for Galileo...since he was right, and they are wrong (about God not existing).
The "God Exists" concept has "taken on all challengers" for thousands of years and "dusted them" like they weren't even there!!
Appeal to antiquity again. Once a Flat earth was the popular belief. That improved a bit with Ptolemy, but still the geocentric system was It. Had all the Mojo, all the Chinese believed it.
But the New system replaced it, and the geocentric system has only started to make a come -back with the Flat earthists.
You may feel that their company does you credit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It speaks volumes about your intellect that you THINK "things JUST EXIST for some inscrutable non-reason" is an OBJECTIVE and sufficient reason to reject the title God for that "inscrutable JUST IS non-reason." That is a sad, very sad, fundamentalist atheist state of mind just as bad as the fundamentalist theist state of mind.
It speaks enough about you that you fail to realise that 'Don't know' when we don't is honest and 'God' when we really don't know is a Faith - claim, even without the fiddling of logic, evidence and semantics to try to prop the claim up, and never mind the sneering superiority you exude in an effort to intimidate the opposition.
Appeal to antiquity again. Once a Flat earth was the popular belief. That improved a bit with Ptolemy, but still the geocentric system was It. Had all the Mojo, all the Chinese believed it.
But the New system replaced it, and the geocentric system has only started to make a come -back with the Flat earthists.
You may feel that their company does you credit.
It speaks enough about you that you fail to realise that 'Don't know' when we don't is honest and 'God' when we really don't know is a Faith - claim, even without the fiddling of logic, evidence and semantics to try to prop the claim up, and never mind the sneering superiority you exude in an effort to intimidate the opposition.
Right...you made my point.
"Flat Earth" was the "standard".
So...any claim contesting that, had to prove itself...because it was considered a "new/extraordinary" claim.
Regardless of veracity.
That is how it has always been...and will probably always be, as respects Burden-of-Proof.
As far as "don't know". I fully understand.
But that is not applicable in the "God Exists" case...because I DO know.
I KNOW that Reality irrefutably exists...and is self-substantiating and self-evident.
"I KNOW that "G-O-D" is defined as Reality.
So...it's a done deal, all provable & verified. God exists...as Reality.
It may bother you that God is defined as Reality...but I KNOW it is, and I can prove it.
God is defined as other things too...and I fully accept those meanings & definitions. But their existence would have to be proved & verified.
See how that works? I accept all the meanings and definitions...and if they exist, they exist...and if they don't, they don't.
I do not cherry-pick. That's for people that lack a valid argument...or hold a biased agenda.
It speaks enough about you that you fail to realize that 'Don't know' when we don't is honest and 'God' when we really don't know is a Faith - claim, even without the fiddling of logic, evidence and semantics to try to prop the claim up, and never mind the sneering superiority you exude in an effort to intimidate the opposition.
It speaks volumes about you that you fail to realize that 'Don't know' when we don't know is honest and that "NOT God" when we really don't know is a Faith-claim, even with the fiddling of logic, evidence, and burden of proof nonsense to try to prop the claim up. You provide no evidence that in any way reduces what we do not know in favor of your characterization, especially as yours violates the attributes we DO KNOW about it and mine does not.
I don't NEED an argument, YOU do. YOU are the one asserting a crock of BS as truth, not me. Got it? Ergo the burden of proof is on YOU, old chum!!! And my proof is the utter lack of evidence supporting your BS.
"God Exists" is the World Standard...and has been for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Don't you know that?
YOU are the one making the "new/extraordinary" claim that contradicts the Standard. Got THAT?
The Burden is on YOU. That's how the world works...in case you didn't know, and need to get hip to that.
Plus...
I KNOW that Reality irrefutably exists...and is self-substantiating and self-evident.
"I KNOW that "G-O-D" is defined as Reality.
So...it's a done deal, all proved & verified. God exists...as Reality.
It may bother you that God is defined as Reality...but I KNOW it is, and I proved it.
God is defined as other things too...and I fully accept those meanings & definitions. But their existence would have to be proved & verified.
I don't NEED an argument, YOU do. YOU are the one asserting a crock of BS as truth, not me. Got it? Ergo the burden of proof is on YOU, old chum!!! And my proof is the utter lack of evidence supporting your BS.
if you don't need one then you are not fighting so hard. "Its plausible but I lack belief" is it for you. Now the level you are fighting is the exact same level as a fundy theist saying "I lack belief in evolution" because it has some gaps.
Well, lets start looking at the actual gaps now salty. I mean you jumping around and saying he is wrong is fine, I guess, but it aint just lack of belief.
Appeal to antiquity again. Once a Flat earth was the popular belief. That improved a bit with Ptolemy, but still the geocentric system was It. Had all the Mojo, all the Chinese believed it.
But the New system replaced it, and the geocentric system has only started to make a come -back with the Flat earthists.
You may feel that their company does you credit.
It speaks enough about you that you fail to realise that 'Don't know' when we don't is honest and 'God' when we really don't know is a Faith - claim, even without the fiddling of logic, evidence and semantics to try to prop the claim up, and never mind the sneering superiority you exude in an effort to intimidate the opposition.
Yeah, Like I said, if your position wasn't faith based you would remove the shackles and strawman would get the duct tape removed.
I've told you this before. Things don't exist for a "reason", they just exist. PPPPEEEERRRRIIIIIIOOOOOOD. End of Story. Got it, (like a) DUMMY???
Yeah, the system around us may be alive and thats what formed us. It just is "alive" and it is responsible for us. We don't know of any grand reason yet.
whats your problem with it?
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We habitually used to say 'Not a shred of evidence' before we gave up even trying.
