Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, not making a choice is a choice to not believe the claim being presented. That is exactly my point. And those choosing to not make a choice due to a lack of evidence are by default atheists, since they have chosen not to believe.
He is believing. He thinks he is believing. He believes there is something to it. Belief is not a switch that you turn on and off. You can have doubts. Nothing in human experience is like black and white like that, except death. Even that is subject to speculation, if a machine is breathing for you are you still alive, or dead?
No doubt. But he still only believes in one of two ways. He believes, or he doesn't, at any given time. He may be processing and coming to grips with new info all the time, but nonetheless at any point in time he either accepts a claim as true, or he doesn't. To think that Claim A might be true, could be true, probably is true, is still not believing that Claim A is true. And until one believes that Claim A is true, one is not a believer in it.
Yes and no. There are indeed all sorts of atheist. But they all have a commonality. They don't believe. Some might go further into arguments I would say are logical fallacies, others might keep it all to themselves and tell no one ( quite a few preachers are closet atheists). But the basic definition of atheism in unbelief, and all atheists fit this.
It's like saying there are all kinds of pregnant women. This is true, but there is one commonality. They are all pregnant. That's the defining characteristic.
Maybe. so we have rational atheist and irrational atheist.
I do agree with logical fallacy part. People that want to deny everything so we don't give "the others" any ammo against atheism and tell other atheist to "heel" are seriously engaging in logical fallacies.
No doubt. But he still only believes in one of two ways. He believes, or he doesn't, at any given time. He may be processing and coming to grips with new info all the time, but nonetheless at any point in time he either accepts a claim as true, or he doesn't. To think that Claim A might be true, could be true, probably is true, is still not believing that Claim A is true. And until one believes that Claim A is true, one is not a believer in it.
This is not true. Could be true ... is in-between not true and true. You are inserting an all or nothing approach. Now you say you either "yes I believe" or you "No, I don't believe". That really isn't true.
for example. life started on this planet or it started in space.
Number one, I do not disbelieve either nor do I think they are both the answer. I think they both are possible. But I do not lack belief in them.
Basically you are forcing binary thinking, black/white, my way or the highway. It just isn't all the valid.
Yes and no. There are indeed all sorts of atheist. But they all have a commonality. They don't believe. Some might go further into arguments I would say are logical fallacies, others might keep it all to themselves and tell no one ( quite a few preachers are closet atheists). But the basic definition of atheism in unbelief, and all atheists fit this.
It's like saying there are all kinds of pregnant women. This is true, but there is one commonality. They are all pregnant. That's the defining characteristic.
Pregnancy is a temporary condition, it does not define one. Atheism is a state of being and there is a spectrum of belief. Someone who believes a spiritual "something" in nature while fly-fishing is on the spectrum of belief and can still call herself an atheist.
Ask any atheist.
Pregnancy is a temporary condition, it does not define one. Atheism is a state of being and there is a spectrum of belief. Someone who believes a spiritual "something" in nature while fly-fishing is on the spectrum of belief and can still call herself an atheist.
Ask any atheist.
to me, You are both are right. atheism is just lack belief in a deity. That really is it. Some atheist take it way further into logical fallacies like "Deny everything so we don't give any belief any ammo". Or treat it like we all are same for team unity against religion sake.
They are still atheist but they aint your regular one.
also, if we are clear about what we are saying, it definitely is not binary thinking like he pointing out.
Dark matter is a better example than pregnancy's. We know what pregnancy is.
Dark mater is a place holder for "Something more is there" That is what dark matter is. Lacking belief in dark matter really need to be defended. One can "lack belief", but that really is an extraordinary position to take. Lacking belkief in it is like lacking belief in evolution. The same goes for some "spiritualty claims being connected to a larger system.
Now I am not spiritual, but the claim is valid. "lack belief" needs some serous explaining or go away and sit down.
Now if we say the dark matter is "WIMPS". I lack belief, but even than it wasn't lack belief as in a "I don't believe" or "I believe" way ... It was "I have no idea I will wait.". Update: They don't think its them today.
I never took it the logical fallacy stage and said "We need to say anything that doesn't give wimps anything they can use to prove their point."
Pregnancy is a temporary condition, it does not define one. Atheism is a state of being and there is a spectrum of belief. Someone who believes a spiritual "something" in nature while fly-fishing is on the spectrum of belief and can still call herself an atheist.
Ask any atheist.
All true. To be honest I am not sure what your point is here. Nowhere have I said all atheists are the same. All I have done is point out that those that do not believe in a claim are non believers in it, whether hard core deniers or simply those who don't make a choice either way. To be a believer requires an affirmative decision to believe.
All true. To be honest I am not sure what your point is here. Nowhere have I said all atheists are the same. All I have done is point out that those that do not believe in a claim are non believers in it, whether hard core deniers or simply those who don't make a choice either way. To be a believer requires an affirmative decision to believe.
on the most simplest of levels you are correct. But it breaks down fast when we start applying real world examples.
for example: when theist "lack belief in evolution". we now need to start processing what lack of belief is rational and what ones are irrational. or maybe reliable is better word.
All true. To be honest I am not sure what your point is here. Nowhere have I said all atheists are the same. All I have done is point out that those that do not believe in a claim are non believers in it, whether hard core deniers or simply those who don't make a choice either way. To be a believer requires an affirmative decision to believe.
My point is there is no such thing as positive non-believing. It is an oxymoron. There is ignorance, belief, and knowledge. There is no Un-knowing either.
My point is there is no such thing as positive non-believing. It is an oxymoron. There is ignorance, belief, and knowledge. There is no Un-knowing either.
I'm not sure what you mean by positive non belief. That people can simply not believe something presented to them without outright rejecting it is established beyond doubt. I am just pointing out such non belief is called atheism when it pertains to theology.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
