Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I did a pretty thorough job of considering all rational and irrational evidence to arrive at the conclusion(s) I have to date. Far as I'm concerned. Best I know how anyway. Not all that much differently from what I still do today. Careful to draw too much conclusion on your part about what you simply chock up to abreaction. What it sounds like to you is what sounds to me like you not knowing what you are talking about with respect to my path or experience. As I am now into my sixties, still of sound mind and body, I'd say a bit more credit is due with respect to how I have arrived at my conclusions in any case.
It sounds like you are someone like I was who would require diligent effort seeking God to have a
convincing experience.
I have known the Lord since I was 7 years old and rededicated my life several times since. I am now 70 and my relationship has only grown.
I have been to bible school and done evangelism and travel the continent meeting people from all walks of life.
God began teaching me long before I learned to respond to Him before I learned intercessory prayer.
When I was young after church during lunch dad and I picked apart the Sunday message like two vultures proving or disproving according to scriptures.
As I grew in the Lord, and my own personal studies continued, much of my interest was initiated in word studies that took me all over the scriptures. Dad taught me not to rely on what men teach for a great many reasons.
Eventually, God was teaching me things during the week and that Sunday the speaker's message delved into those subjects specifically.
We didn't always attend the same church so it is not like there were some subliminal way the previous sundays message might prime me for the next. Sometimes the same subject was touched on by some radio teacher.
My anticipation grew to the point that if the person delivering a message didn't touch even a little on the things I had interest, I discounted their depth. When I had been called on to teach there was a great deal of prayer and serious undertaking for weeks before the event. And I may add, I kept it short.
I have known God's direction in my life with simple things like the drive to work, the clothes to wear the people to speak to and those that simply are not going to listen, and how to speak healing in those requesting prayer. I don't manipulate God, I cooperate with Him.
I know that God knows the road ahead and I trust Him and He is faithful.
Jesus provided the Holy Spirit to be our teacher in His place, and this He does very well, knowing how we think and the truth of our motivations.
The great deception is thinking your thoughts are private. ( they are not) When you pass from this life you will discover this for your self.
Jesus did not concern Himself with other religions, neither should I.
His only concern Is reconciling men with God, and saying and doing only what His heavenly Father instructed him.
A man desperate to know and obey God will settle for nothing less than His instruction.
It sounds like you are someone like I was who would require diligent effort seeking God to have a
convincing experience.
all we have to do is sit down and explain what we are saying using the textbooks and a black board. Assuming he has some background like he says. At that point, "plausible" trumps lack of belief.
It sounds like you are someone like I was who would require diligent effort seeking God to have a
convincing experience.
I'm not sure I've ever been one to pursue such an effort or think it was necessary. Or should be necessary...
Or so many others seem to attest to the fact that no real effort is necessary. Only to open your heart to God. Mine was open for a good long time until I got old enough to really think about what all that meant...
I have known the Lord since I was 7 years old and rededicated my life several times since. I am now 70 and my relationship has only grown.
I have been to bible school and done evangelism and travel the continent meeting people from all walks of life.
God began teaching me long before I learned to respond to Him before I learned intercessory prayer.
When I was young after church during lunch dad and I picked apart the Sunday message like two vultures proving or disproving according to scriptures.
As I grew in the Lord, and my own personal studies continued, much of my interest was initiated in word studies that took me all over the scriptures. Dad taught me not to rely on what men teach for a great many reasons.
Eventually, God was teaching me things during the week and that Sunday the speaker's message delved into those subjects specifically.
We didn't always attend the same church so it is not like there were some subliminal way the previous sundays message might prime me for the next. Sometimes the same subject was touched on by some radio teacher.
My anticipation grew to the point that if the person delivering a message didn't touch even a little on the things I had interest, I discounted their depth. When I had been called on to teach there was a great deal of prayer and serious undertaking for weeks before the event. And I may add, I kept it short.
I have known God's direction in my life with simple things like the drive to work, the clothes to wear the people to speak to and those that simply are not going to listen, and how to speak healing in those requesting prayer. I don't manipulate God, I cooperate with Him.
I know that God knows the road ahead and I trust Him and He is faithful.
Jesus provided the Holy Spirit to be our teacher in His place, and this He does very well, knowing how we think and the truth of our motivations.
The great deception is thinking your thoughts are private. ( they are not) When you pass from this life you will discover this for your self.
Jesus did not concern Himself with other religions, neither should I.
His only concern Is reconciling men with God, and saying and doing only what His heavenly Father instructed him.
A man desperate to know and obey God will settle for nothing less than His instruction.
I often experience much of the same kind of satisfaction you describe. On my way to work. Living life generally speaking, but it hasn't been because of God since I was a lad. Not that I can tell anyway.
I wonder...
Seems like you float around pretty much always in a state of "God's direction." Though I can relate to the experience of being satisfied as it seems you describe, cooperating with God. I've also got my days and/or times when all is not so blissful. Times of frustration, disappointment, struggle, pain, suffering. You?
How would you describe those experiences and how well cooperating with God is working for you? I ask, because I wonder how close our experiences may be, "good, bad and ugly," even if we describe and/or understand the cause of those experiences differently.
I often experience much of the same kind of satisfaction you describe. On my way to work. Living life generally speaking, but it hasn't been because of God since I was a lad. Not that I can tell anyway.
I wonder...
Seems like you float around pretty much always in a state of "God's direction." Though I can relate to the experience of being satisfied as it seems you describe, cooperating with God. I've also got my days and/or times when all is not so blissful. Times of frustration, disappointment, struggle, pain, suffering. You?
How would you describe those experiences and how well cooperating with God is working for you? I ask, because I wonder how close our experiences may be, "good, bad and ugly," even if we describe and/or understand the cause of those experiences differently.
My problem with Arleigh's post is that many people can say that same basic thing who are not believers in the christian god. I suppose many of Jim Jones' followers would have said something similar.
Those who were strict followers of the bible in the deep South during slavery days, and who owned slaves, probably would say something similar.
What I know does not come from the teaching of men, and oft-times others "taught of men" have a hard time with it.
But what I've learned is that God fully intends to be one's teacher.
He does not force Himself.
Jesus said, "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled."
Righteousness is being right with God. Not religion or another man's philosophy.
What level of desperation do you exercise toward this relationship?
I have done academics, it's not academics.
I have done all kinds of religious activities, more than most starting as a child.
It is not those activities.
It is the time spent in desperate prayer waiting on God for as long as it takes, waiting for His inspiration and acting on His instruction. Early Christians had no bible and most did not know how to read. but what they did have is the Holy Spirit.
1. One should not expect to hear from God with a broken (NO) relationship. He is not obligated to respond especially to some one that is less than transparent and honest concerning the own failure and inadiquaticy.
David said," Search me oh God and know my heart, try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way ever lasting."
The first words in Jesus ministry was repent. A lot of people come to God, but have their own agenda they want God to fit. God does not alter Himself to fit men, men must alter them selves to fit His agenda. Otherwise one is not respecting God.
It is not fitting patterns men establish, but via a relationship one has with God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit He alone provides.
If a man has made himself subject to God. then the Holy Spirit will inspire the man to change from the inside.
Paul said, "If any man be in Christ He is a new creature, old things are passed away and behold all things become new."
A man desperate for this relationship will welcome the conviction and instruction of the Holy Spirit.
One accustomed to making excuses, or blaming others is unlikely to receive anything. fact.
Once one had invited Jesus into their life and recognized the importance of having His tutelage in the scriptures, things begin to open up.
What I know does not come from the teaching of men, and oft-times others "taught of men" have a hard time with it.
But what I've learned is that God fully intends to be one's teacher. He does not force Himself. Jesus said, "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled."
Righteousness is being right with God. Not religion or another man's philosophy.
What level of desperation do you exercise toward this relationship?
I have done academics, it's not academics. I have done all kinds of religious activities, more than most starting as a child.
It is not those activities.
It is the time spent in desperate prayer waiting on God for as long as it takes, waiting for His inspiration and acting on His instruction. Early Christians had no bible and most did not know how to read. but what they did have is the Holy Spirit.
1. One should not expect to hear from God with a broken (NO) relationship. He is not obligated to respond especially to some one that is less than transparent and honest concerning the own failure and inadiquaticy.
David said," Search me oh God and know my heart, try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way ever lasting."
The first words in Jesus ministry was repent. A lot of people come to God, but have their own agenda they want God to fit. God does not alter Himself to fit men, men must alter them selves to fit His agenda. Otherwise one is not respecting God.
It is not fitting patterns men establish, but via a relationship one has with God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit He alone provides.
If a man has made himself subject to God. then the Holy Spirit will inspire the man to change from the inside.
Paul said, "If any man be in Christ He is a new creature, old things are passed away and behold all things become new."
A man desperate for this relationship will welcome the conviction and instruction of the Holy Spirit.
One accustomed to making excuses, or blaming others is unlikely to receive anything. fact.
Once one had invited Jesus into their life and recognized the importance of having His tutelage in the scriptures, things begin to open up.
You're right. It's other christians do the forcing.
Actually, we don't really know that he said that.
Perhaps you were inculcated too much as a child.
Most of your post is simple proselytizing. We've all heard it before.
I often experience much of the same kind of satisfaction you describe. On my way to work. Living life generally speaking, but it hasn't been because of God since I was a lad. Not that I can tell anyway.
I wonder...
Seems like you float around pretty much always in a state of "God's direction." Though I can relate to the experience of being satisfied as it seems you describe, cooperating with God. I've also got my days and/or times when all is not so blissful. Times of frustration, disappointment, struggle, pain, suffering. You?
How would you describe those experiences and how well cooperating with God is working for you? I ask, because I wonder how close our experiences may be, "good, bad and ugly," even if we describe and/or understand the cause of those experiences differently.
Former Believers have a great advantage over me (a lifetime atheist) in that they know what Believing was like. I have to go on secondhand reports. However from what I read it sounds like they just had the same feelings and experiences we all have (aside the mental LSD one, and I suspect I May have had an atheist version of that) but just spooge God (name your own) all over that.
Some deconverts have related that they simply 'Let it Go' and found it was all the same, but without a god -belief. Of course some found it a terrible struggle to Let Go; some just let it happen. But the Theory I have is that Believers just 'join the dots' as Arach said recently and read the hand, foot or some other effect of God (name your own) into everything. From finding your car keys to lightning striking your house 'because I sinned', to winning a small Lotto (God has "Cerain Connections") to losing your job ("God is teaching me a lesson").
I think that maintaining the god -faith is actually easy to fiddle, but I suspect hard to keep doing because..I have Another Shrubbery....deep down they have to keep battling against the knowledge that they ARE fiddling it and only the Godfaith will tell them deep down that it's ok to cheat and fiddle because it's True (in spite of the evidence) anyway.
Former Believers have a great advantage over me (a lifetime atheist) in that they know what Believing was like. I have to go on secondhand reports. However from what I read it sounds like they just had the same feelings and experiences we all have (aside the mental LSD one, and I suspect I May have had an atheist version of that) but just spooge God (name your own) all over that.
Some deconverts have related that they simply 'Let it Go' and found it was all the same, but without a god -belief. Of course some found it a terrible struggle to Let Go; some just let it happen. But the Theory I have is that Believers just 'join the dots' as Arach said recently and read the hand, foot or some other effect of God (name your own) into everything. From finding your car keys to lightning striking your house 'because I sinned', to winning a small Lotto (God has "Cerain Connections") to losing your job ("God is teaching me a lesson").
I think that maintaining the god -faith is actually easy to fiddle, but I suspect hard to keep doing because..I have Another Shrubbery....deep down they have to keep battling against the knowledge that they ARE fiddling it and only the Godfaith will tell them deep down that it's ok to cheat and fiddle because it's True (in spite of the evidence) anyway.
Is this what you struggle with, Trans?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
