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Point is, you are either uneducated or ignorant about science, or you are pretending to be, just to further an unhealthy stereotype on this forum.
Were you Eusebius a few years ago on this message board?
Back to the topic.
The Problem with church attendance is churches.
For one, many have failed to move with the times, to move forward with the socio-cultural evolution of our world. The one's that do embrace society, change and welcome all are the most successful.
Sadly, for many people, this means entertainment AKA the MEGACHURCH. There is a lot at work in the psychology behind the megachurch. Group psychology has always been a focal point of religion. The idea that not only do people want to belong to a social group, or the need humans have to be part of something, is filled by church attendance. And what better place to attend than with thousands of other people at a megachurch? There is also an aspect of group thought we refer to as Normative Social Influence. It was demonstrated back in the 1950s by Solomon Ashe in his experiments showing the degree of group influence and social conformity. In a church, a person will go along with a belief just to be a part of a group, and even knowing that the group is wrong, will verbalize agreement out of social pressure and a need to belong.
Church has become for many, entertainment, with professional choirs, TV stages instead of altars and replacing the worship experience with a theatrical one. And some people like that, but many do not.
However, with the internet, it is now possible to find non-religious social groups to fill this need. A person does not have to conform to a belief which they do not want to hold in todays society.
When I was growing up in a small town last century, there was little to do on a Sunday. The state of Texas had "Blue Laws " at the time, which restricted business from being open. (I was one of the people who later went door to door to get petitions to end those laws.) There was very little to do except go to church. The churches in town wanted it that way. Many people would go, because "everyone else does" or because of tradition, or boredom, but there was little else to get out and do. Now, thanks to the internet, we have much more to do, and Texas is even no longer burdened with socialistic laws.
Second, the churches have been their own greatest enemy. And this is nothing new. Stories of abuse, cultic behavior, crime, all out of the church have soured many Americans towards avoiding religion. It is not just a liberal think, but it does mean thinking for oneself and choosing to do what is in one's own best interest. I would never ever put myself or my family into an abusive situation, like my parents did. I learned from their mistakes. I can spot abusive behavior, social control and avoid it like the plague.
People are getting tired of fear and hate, and fear and hate is what drives many churches. And people are getting really sick of that, so they stay home. All I heard growing up was fear and hate, it destroyed so many lives. Unnecessarily I might add.
I have told many Christians "I do not go to your church because I do not want to be like you" That feels good, and it shuts them up. It is one of the few things that sums up why to avoid certain churches. One smart mouthed pastor responded with "Well we are all going to heaven" to which my response was, "well if Heaven is full of people like you, then it must suck there. I cannot think of a worse company in which to spend eternity than you and your followers" THAT shut him up. But think about this: Why would I want to spend any time around shallow, hateful people? Who would? We have enough of them on this forum already. I do not want to sit in a room for an hour with them. And that is what so many churches have done, they have isolated people into an us against the world mentality which which is not only Elitist but very unhealthy as well.
Finally, the internet, social media, has allowed for information to be exchanged. There was a time when I was growing up that the only information available and encouraged was the Bible itself. Now, with the stroke of a keyboard, connections to libraries full of documents which were not ever available at our mall town library can be read. More than even the college library. More than the Medical school library even.
And social media allows us good ol' Atheists to share stories, to find out that we are not alone. I grew up thinking that I was the only one out of a few hundred that hated our church so much that it made me ill to even dress up to go! I was certain no one else felt as I do. Guess what? I have found THOUSANDS of people in America who had similar experiences, who share my distrust and dislike of religions, who do not believe in a god (Because there is not only ZERO evidence for one, but there is ZERO need for one as well!) and it has been liberating, even as much as the day I walked outside of the Baptist church and loudly announced to everyone my renouncement of my membership and baptism.
The future of the human experience is probably atheism, and we see the evils of religion vs the freedom of non-belief. And many of us, myself included, are happier, more successful and morally Superior SINCE we left religion. People like myself are openly showing others how religion/deity is not needed, and people are learning to empower themselves and take personal responsibility for their lives, their communities and their world. And they are learning that no god is needed. Or wanted. Amen.
Point is, you are either uneducated or ignorant about science, or you are pretending to be, just to further an unhealthy stereotype on this forum.
Were you Eusebius a few years ago on this message board?
Back to the topic.
The Problem with church attendance is churches.
For one, many have failed to move with the times, to move forward with the socio-cultural evolution of our world. The one's that do embrace society, change and welcome all are the most successful.
Sadly, for many people, this means entertainment AKA the MEGACHURCH. There is a lot at work in the psychology behind the megachurch. Group psychology has always been a focal point of religion. The idea that not only do people want to belong to a social group, or the need humans have to be part of something, is filled by church attendance. And what better place to attend than with thousands of other people at a megachurch? There is also an aspect of group thought we refer to as Normative Social Influence. It was demonstrated back in the 1950s by Solomon Ashe in his experiments showing the degree of group influence and social conformity. In a church, a person will go along with a belief just to be a part of a group, and even knowing that the group is wrong, will verbalize agreement out of social pressure and a need to belong.
Church has become for many, entertainment, with professional choirs, TV stages instead of altars and replacing the worship experience with a theatrical one. And some people like that, but many do not.
However, with the internet, it is now possible to find non-religious social groups to fill this need. A person does not have to conform to a belief which they do not want to hold in todays society.
When I was growing up in a small town last century, there was little to do on a Sunday. The state of Texas had "Blue Laws " at the time, which restricted business from being open. (I was one of the people who later went door to door to get petitions to end those laws.) There was very little to do except go to church. The churches in town wanted it that way. Many people would go, because "everyone else does" or because of tradition, or boredom, but there was little else to get out and do. Now, thanks to the internet, we have much more to do, and Texas is even no longer burdened with socialistic laws.
Second, the churches have been their own greatest enemy. And this is nothing new. Stories of abuse, cultic behavior, crime, all out of the church have soured many Americans towards avoiding religion. It is not just a liberal think, but it does mean thinking for oneself and choosing to do what is in one's own best interest. I would never ever put myself or my family into an abusive situation, like my parents did. I learned from their mistakes. I can spot abusive behavior, social control and avoid it like the plague.
People are getting tired of fear and hate, and fear and hate is what drives many churches. And people are getting really sick of that, so they stay home. All I heard growing up was fear and hate, it destroyed so many lives. Unnecessarily I might add.
I have told many Christians "I do not go to your church because I do not want to be like you" That feels good, and it shuts them up. It is one of the few things that sums up why to avoid certain churches. One smart mouthed pastor responded with "Well we are all going to heaven" to which my response was, "well if Heaven is full of people like you, then it must suck there. I cannot think of a worse company in which to spend eternity than you and your followers" THAT shut him up. But think about this: Why would I want to spend any time around shallow, hateful people? Who would? We have enough of them on this forum already. I do not want to sit in a room for an hour with them. And that is what so many churches have done, they have isolated people into an us against the world mentality which which is not only Elitist but very unhealthy as well.
Finally, the internet, social media, has allowed for information to be exchanged. There was a time when I was growing up that the only information available and encouraged was the Bible itself. Now, with the stroke of a keyboard, connections to libraries full of documents which were not ever available at our mall town library can be read. More than even the college library. More than the Medical school library even.
And social media allows us good ol' Atheists to share stories, to find out that we are not alone. I grew up thinking that I was the only one out of a few hundred that hated our church so much that it made me ill to even dress up to go! I was certain no one else felt as I do. Guess what? I have found THOUSANDS of people in America who had similar experiences, who share my distrust and dislike of religions, who do not believe in a god (Because there is not only ZERO evidence for one, but there is ZERO need for one as well!) and it has been liberating, even as much as the day I walked outside of the Baptist church and loudly announced to everyone my renouncement of my membership and baptism.
The future of the human experience is probably atheism, and we see the evils of religion vs the freedom of non-belief. And many of us, myself included, are happier, more successful and morally Superior SINCE we left religion. People like myself are openly showing others how religion/deity is not needed, and people are learning to empower themselves and take personal responsibility for their lives, their communities and their world. And they are learning that no god is needed. Or wanted. Amen.
Wow. I must have touched a nerve for you to go on that rant.
Point is, you are either uneducated or ignorant about science, or you are pretending to be, just to further an unhealthy stereotype on this forum.
Were you Eusebius a few years ago on this message board?
Back to the topic.
The Problem with church attendance is churches.
For one, many have failed to move with the times, to move forward with the socio-cultural evolution of our world. The one's that do embrace society, change and welcome all are the most successful.
Sadly, for many people, this means entertainment AKA the MEGACHURCH. There is a lot at work in the psychology behind the megachurch. Group psychology has always been a focal point of religion. The idea that not only do people want to belong to a social group, or the need humans have to be part of something, is filled by church attendance. And what better place to attend than with thousands of other people at a megachurch? There is also an aspect of group thought we refer to as Normative Social Influence. It was demonstrated back in the 1950s by Solomon Ashe in his experiments showing the degree of group influence and social conformity. In a church, a person will go along with a belief just to be a part of a group, and even knowing that the group is wrong, will verbalize agreement out of social pressure and a need to belong.
Church has become for many, entertainment, with professional choirs, TV stages instead of altars and replacing the worship experience with a theatrical one. And some people like that, but many do not.
However, with the internet, it is now possible to find non-religious social groups to fill this need. A person does not have to conform to a belief which they do not want to hold in todays society.
When I was growing up in a small town last century, there was little to do on a Sunday. The state of Texas had "Blue Laws " at the time, which restricted business from being open. (I was one of the people who later went door to door to get petitions to end those laws.) There was very little to do except go to church. The churches in town wanted it that way. Many people would go, because "everyone else does" or because of tradition, or boredom, but there was little else to get out and do. Now, thanks to the internet, we have much more to do, and Texas is even no longer burdened with socialistic laws.
Second, the churches have been their own greatest enemy. And this is nothing new. Stories of abuse, cultic behavior, crime, all out of the church have soured many Americans towards avoiding religion. It is not just a liberal think, but it does mean thinking for oneself and choosing to do what is in one's own best interest. I would never ever put myself or my family into an abusive situation, like my parents did. I learned from their mistakes. I can spot abusive behavior, social control and avoid it like the plague.
People are getting tired of fear and hate, and fear and hate is what drives many churches. And people are getting really sick of that, so they stay home. All I heard growing up was fear and hate, it destroyed so many lives. Unnecessarily I might add.
I have told many Christians "I do not go to your church because I do not want to be like you" That feels good, and it shuts them up. It is one of the few things that sums up why to avoid certain churches. One smart mouthed pastor responded with "Well we are all going to heaven" to which my response was, "well if Heaven is full of people like you, then it must suck there. I cannot think of a worse company in which to spend eternity than you and your followers" THAT shut him up. But think about this: Why would I want to spend any time around shallow, hateful people? Who would? We have enough of them on this forum already. I do not want to sit in a room for an hour with them. And that is what so many churches have done, they have isolated people into an us against the world mentality which which is not only Elitist but very unhealthy as well.
Finally, the internet, social media, has allowed for information to be exchanged. There was a time when I was growing up that the only information available and encouraged was the Bible itself. Now, with the stroke of a keyboard, connections to libraries full of documents which were not ever available at our mall town library can be read. More than even the college library. More than the Medical school library even.
And social media allows us good ol' Atheists to share stories, to find out that we are not alone. I grew up thinking that I was the only one out of a few hundred that hated our church so much that it made me ill to even dress up to go! I was certain no one else felt as I do. Guess what? I have found THOUSANDS of people in America who had similar experiences, who share my distrust and dislike of religions, who do not believe in a god (Because there is not only ZERO evidence for one, but there is ZERO need for one as well!) and it has been liberating, even as much as the day I walked outside of the Baptist church and loudly announced to everyone my renouncement of my membership and baptism.
The future of the human experience is probably atheism, and we see the evils of religion vs the freedom of non-belief. And many of us, myself included, are happier, more successful and morally Superior SINCE we left religion. People like myself are openly showing others how religion/deity is not needed, and people are learning to empower themselves and take personal responsibility for their lives, their communities and their world. And they are learning that no god is needed. Or wanted. Amen.
You've stated this very well.
It's sort of like restaurants. I used love PF Changs, not because I thought they were real Chinese dishes, but just because they had several dishes I loved. And they one day one of the dishes was undercooked. Well, everyone gets to make a mistake. And then a couple of years later I took a couple there as a thank you dinner, and it was horrible. Who knows why. It's been over 2 years now, and I've never gone back. I've learned to cook my favorite dishes from there myself, and if I go out with others, it's always someplace else. I think that's a little bit like my home town. As I growing up, the Catholic Church there did a heck of a business...about 16 masses a week, and that included 5 masses on Sunday. And then, around 1970 we got a priest that people pretty much hated. And I understand that he was followed by a series of priests that were pretty much disliked, along with the catholic sex scandal, and voila...50 years later instead of 16 masses a week, now there's 1 mass a week. People simply started to do something else on Sunday mornings, mostly not including church at all. In the 1960s, the Methodist church in my home town was full every Sunday. I don't know exactly what happened to them, but last year they literally went out of business and sold the church building. One of the other main churches in my hometown did the same. Some probably moved on to different churches, but my guess is that many simply filled their Sunday mornings with other things -- relaxing around the house, family outings, etc. And once most people break the church-going habit, most people never go back to any regular church attendance. And the young, in particular, fill their time with other things. I think I am safe in saying that more young people are video gamers than church attendees. Think about that. More young people are video gamers than church attendees. This is where I sorta disagree with one thing that you said -- I'm not so sure that the future of human experience is probably atheism, because -- to a degree -- that requires an active choice. I think it's more like looking at the menu of things to do in life, and religion is merely overlooked as a choice.
Genetics established evolution, or at least our descent from the great apes, as fact. There may still be ideas within the evolutionary theory that could be proven wrong, but after the mapping of the human genome we know that we descend from the apes. We share common broken genes , broken and wrongly mutated at the exact same spots on the gene, with the apes, and it causes the same diseases in both us and the apes today. All the great apes share this, it is an unmistakable identifying mark that we descend from apes. And the guy that headed the study that showed this is a devout evangelical Christian named Francis Collins who has written books attempting to prove God through science. He has developed the idea of what he calls theistic evolution to explain things, since as a highly qualified scientists he knows undeniably that evolution is true.
Evolution is` no longer arguable except to people who simply cannot accept it because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. Those folks are now in the same boat as the flat Earth folks, who will not accept the truth no matter how many facts are given showing them wrong.
I deal with facts, not myths and speculations. Show the facts, not the claims.
I've been asking these people to produce some evidence to support their unbelievable claims for months now and got nothing but a story of a shyster evangelical in Thailand. Other than that, crickets.
Genetics established evolution, or at least our descent from the great apes, as fact.
There may still be ideas within the evolutionary theory that could be proven wrong, but after the mapping of the human genome we know that we descend from the apes. We share common broken genes , broken and wrongly mutated at the exact same spots on the gene, with the apes, and it causes the same diseases in both us and the apes today. All the great apes share this, it is an unmistakable identifying mark that we descend from apes. And the guy that headed the study that showed this is a devout evangelical Christian named Francis Collins who has written books attempting to prove God through science. He has developed the idea of what he calls theistic evolution to explain things, since as a highly qualified scientists he knows undeniably that evolution is true.
Evolution is` no longer arguable except to people who simply cannot accept it because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. Those folks are now in the same boat as the flat Earth folks, who will not accept the truth no matter how many facts are given showing them wrong.
We ARE a great ape.
Presuming that Neanderthals are even closer to our cousins than we are, then my branch of the family is not quite as far removed as others. My DNA shows I am in the top 99% of people tested with Neanderthal DNA.
Point is, you are either uneducated or ignorant about science, or you are pretending to be, just to further an unhealthy stereotype on this forum.
Were you Eusebius a few years ago on this message board?
Back to the topic.
The Problem with church attendance is churches.
For one, many have failed to move with the times, to move forward with the socio-cultural evolution of our world. The one's that do embrace society, change and welcome all are the most successful.
Sadly, for many people, this means entertainment AKA the MEGACHURCH. There is a lot at work in the psychology behind the megachurch. Group psychology has always been a focal point of religion. The idea that not only do people want to belong to a social group, or the need humans have to be part of something, is filled by church attendance. And what better place to attend than with thousands of other people at a megachurch? There is also an aspect of group thought we refer to as Normative Social Influence. It was demonstrated back in the 1950s by Solomon Ashe in his experiments showing the degree of group influence and social conformity. In a church, a person will go along with a belief just to be a part of a group, and even knowing that the group is wrong, will verbalize agreement out of social pressure and a need to belong.
Church has become for many, entertainment, with professional choirs, TV stages instead of altars and replacing the worship experience with a theatrical one. And some people like that, but many do not.
However, with the internet, it is now possible to find non-religious social groups to fill this need. A person does not have to conform to a belief which they do not want to hold in todays society.
When I was growing up in a small town last century, there was little to do on a Sunday. The state of Texas had "Blue Laws " at the time, which restricted business from being open. (I was one of the people who later went door to door to get petitions to end those laws.) There was very little to do except go to church. The churches in town wanted it that way. Many people would go, because "everyone else does" or because of tradition, or boredom, but there was little else to get out and do. Now, thanks to the internet, we have much more to do, and Texas is even no longer burdened with socialistic laws.
Second, the churches have been their own greatest enemy. And this is nothing new. Stories of abuse, cultic behavior, crime, all out of the church have soured many Americans towards avoiding religion. It is not just a liberal think, but it does mean thinking for oneself and choosing to do what is in one's own best interest. I would never ever put myself or my family into an abusive situation, like my parents did. I learned from their mistakes. I can spot abusive behavior, social control and avoid it like the plague.
People are getting tired of fear and hate, and fear and hate is what drives many churches. And people are getting really sick of that, so they stay home. All I heard growing up was fear and hate, it destroyed so many lives. Unnecessarily I might add.
I have told many Christians "I do not go to your church because I do not want to be like you" That feels good, and it shuts them up. It is one of the few things that sums up why to avoid certain churches. One smart mouthed pastor responded with "Well we are all going to heaven" to which my response was, "well if Heaven is full of people like you, then it must suck there. I cannot think of a worse company in which to spend eternity than you and your followers" THAT shut him up. But think about this: Why would I want to spend any time around shallow, hateful people? Who would? We have enough of them on this forum already. I do not want to sit in a room for an hour with them. And that is what so many churches have done, they have isolated people into an us against the world mentality which which is not only Elitist but very unhealthy as well.
Finally, the internet, social media, has allowed for information to be exchanged. There was a time when I was growing up that the only information available and encouraged was the Bible itself. Now, with the stroke of a keyboard, connections to libraries full of documents which were not ever available at our mall town library can be read. More than even the college library. More than the Medical school library even.
And social media allows us good ol' Atheists to share stories, to find out that we are not alone. I grew up thinking that I was the only one out of a few hundred that hated our church so much that it made me ill to even dress up to go! I was certain no one else felt as I do. Guess what? I have found THOUSANDS of people in America who had similar experiences, who share my distrust and dislike of religions, who do not believe in a god (Because there is not only ZERO evidence for one, but there is ZERO need for one as well!) and it has been liberating, even as much as the day I walked outside of the Baptist church and loudly announced to everyone my renouncement of my membership and baptism.
The future of the human experience is probably atheism, and we see the evils of religion vs the freedom of non-belief. And many of us, myself included, are happier, more successful and morally Superior SINCE we left religion. People like myself are openly showing others how religion/deity is not needed, and people are learning to empower themselves and take personal responsibility for their lives, their communities and their world. And they are learning that no god is needed. Or wanted. Amen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatesDude
Genetics established evolution, or at least our descent from the great apes, as fact. There may still be ideas within the evolutionary theory that could be proven wrong, but after the mapping of the human genome we know that we descend from the apes. We share common broken genes , broken and wrongly mutated at the exact same spots on the gene, with the apes, and it causes the same diseases in both us and the apes today. All the great apes share this, it is an unmistakable identifying mark that we descend from apes. And the guy that headed the study that showed this is a devout evangelical Christian named Francis Collins who has written books attempting to prove God through science. He has developed the idea of what he calls theistic evolution to explain things, since as a highly qualified scientists he knows undeniably that evolution is true.
Evolution is` no longer arguable except to people who simply cannot accept it because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. Those folks are now in the same boat as the flat Earth folks, who will not accept the truth no matter how many facts are given showing them wrong.
Within a few months of coming to the forum, there was this exchange...one of my very favorites. To this day it cracks me up.:
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