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Another short video on Consciousness per Vedanta. Someone has excerpted it from a lecture delivered at the Indian Institute of Technology in India in Kanpur, India. It is a prestigious institution with selective admission. Many Indian CEO of Tech companies are graduates of the IITs. Such as Sundar Pichhai of GOOGLE.
The lecture, from what appears on the board - a list of the 12 upanishads, seems to be on Advaita.
OK.
Nothing to argue there.
Still, does not tell, what Consciousness IS.
Also, he didn't mention the 6th, and the most important attribute of Consciousness.
Everything IS and FUNCTIONS because of Consciousness. Without Consciousness, everything, self-conscious or not, is only a chaos of unorganized units of Substance.
OK.
Nothing to argue there.
Still, does not tell, what Consciousness IS.
Also, he didn't mention the 6th, and the most important attribute of Consciousness. Everything IS and FUNCTIONS because of Consciousness. Without Consciousness, everything, self-conscious or not, is only a chaos of unorganized units of Substance.
Sadly, grasping that sixth attribute is blocked by our strong conditioning to our physical reality. Trust me, I have spent a lot of time here trying to little effect to penetrate that conditioning to physicality. Even those most familiar with Quantum Field Theory and its implications seem loathe to abandon their physicality and all it implies.
There was a suggestion that it would of benefit to have a thread on what is meant by Conciousness. Here is a video that may provide some definitons and meaning. It is about 14 minutes.
Thank you for this video which I found interesting to listen to and view from beginning to end. Interesting to me for a number of reasons...
One to better understand where you are coming from along these lines. This perspective and the rationale that supports Hindu conviction about Vedanta. I wish there was a transcript of this talk, because there is so much I'd like to further address about so much that is explained in this video. One thing I can quickly point out is that I completely agree with the great majority of what this swami explains. About religion, science, Vedanta and their differences. The swami does a very good job of methodically, very calmly and clearly explaining the nature of all three disciplines.
Quite convincingly in many ways, but there are certain significant aspects about this swami's "line of reasoning" that I feel needs correcting with respect to all the facts or truth the swami lays out that causes the swami to conclude what he does. I took notes as best I could about these specifics since there is no transcript, and I'd be glad to elaborate with those specifics if anyone cares to consider them. I'll wait until perhaps tomorrow if there is any interest along those lines...
Meanwhile, one of the many things that occurs to me as I listen to this video is that I more often than not refer to what science can teach us. Rarely do I get into what I've done on a more personal level that might be better described like the swami describes Vedanta. Not that I can claim any great progress toward achieving enlightenment that keeps me from any manner of suffering, but I have known suffering during my lifetime. Serious suffering. I don't call it a spiritual journey, but I devoted more time than most on what is most certainly my personal mental journey to deal with that suffering and to perhaps mitigate it into the future.
I would never argue that anyone can know this reality the way I do, or that science can prove or disprove my personal experience along these lines. All that I consider the workings of my consciousness. Of course not, but I suspect there are people who seem to think their "spiritual" journey is somehow entirely different from what I call my own personal experience along these lines. Not only to deal with suffering and mitigate suffering, but all my other very personal life experiences that only I can know in the way I do.
I could go on, but I've not got more time to do so right now. Perhaps tomorrow. Meanwhile, thanks for another good thread and opportunity to address this topic of consciousness that will hopefully prove more interesting and elevated than some other threads so far in this forum. A good serving of new "food for thought" well appreciated.
Another question that comes to mind after watching this video, is there anyone who feels they have effectively achieved a level of awareness that prevents them from suffering? On a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of achieving such awareness, 10 being completely free of suffering, how far has your spiritual journey (or efforts of any kind) delivered you from suffering or the prospect of suffering?
Another question that comes to mind after watching this video, is there anyone who feels they have effectively achieved a level of awareness that prevents them from suffering? On a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of achieving such awareness, 10 being completely free of suffering, how far has your spiritual journey (or efforts of any kind) delivered you from suffering or the prospect of suffering?
I am afraid this query needs clarification.
If it relates to the second video, suffering relates to mental anguish due to any number of reasons. Vedantic philosophy teaches one to view the anguish one suffers from from a different perspective than what we usually view suffering - a personal affront, injury; something that has to be resolved right now; that there is a cure that must be got. It creates a psychic distance that helps bear what needs to be borne.
Personally, studying Advaita deeply has itself been a process to understand my anguish, bear it, live with uncertainty with patience. That brings relief from fear, a clarity in my thinking, a certain peace, and capacity to relate and give support to others. I do feel a difference in myself and the effect of that on others. I am a happier person.
OK.
Nothing to argue there.
Still, does not tell, what Consciousness IS.
Also, he didn't mention the 6th, and the most important attribute of Consciousness.
Everything IS and FUNCTIONS because of Consciousness. Without Consciousness, everything, self-conscious or not, is only a chaos of unorganized units of Substance.
I don’t get your 6th point. Conciousness in the Cosmic level is undivided, unbroken, pervades all. That is its essence, the only Truth. The only Existence. There is nothing else. No units and substances.
What it most certainly not is Creator God as in the Abrahamic religion. It does not create anything, does not control anything, it is IN the creation, all of creation.
Sadly, grasping that sixth attribute is blocked by our strong conditioning to our physical reality. Trust me, I have spent a lot of time here trying to little effect to penetrate that conditioning to physicality. Even those most familiar with Quantum Field Theory and its implications seem loathe to abandon their physicality and all it implies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
I don’t get your 6th point. Conciousness in the Cosmic level is undivided, unbroken, pervades all. That is its essence, the only Truth. The only Existence. There is nothing else. No units and substances.
What it most certainly not is Creator God as in the Abrahamic religion. It does not create anything, does not control anything, it is IN the creation, all of creation.
I forgot to mention those indoctrinated in the esoteric literature are also resistant to the sixth attribute. QED!
I have to go back and listen to where he says it is not philosophy
Vedas as 4 in number and form the basis of Hinduism and covers many aspects of life and living. Authors and date unknown and originally were orally transmitted. They all have parts that govern different aspects. At the end of each Veda are the upanishads ~ i would loosely translate it to contemplations, based on the vedas but also original works. This is Vedanta - End piece of Veda. There are several of these.
12 of them form the basis of the Advaita - nondual- school of phiosophy as opposed to dualistic which closely resembles Abrahamic religions.
I hope this helps.
Thanks.
What i mean is, the guy spends a lot of time explaining that Vedanta is not science and it is not religion but didn't spend a great deal of time saying what it actually is, so I'm still a bit unclear.
So what I'm asking is, I got that it's a focus on ones self and ones own experience and that study /knowledge of it somehow alleviates suffering? Am I heading in the right direction? I'm not exactly sure if I'm understanding it correctly?
How does it achieve this? Through meditation? Personal reflection?
How would you describe it? As a way if life? A worldview? A system of thought? Maybe not a philosophy, but something else?
So for example a definition of humanism is not so much a philosophy but:
"an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems."
In contast, Vedanta seem to be more a focus on ones self rather than others. Would that be accurate?
Thanks.
What i mean is, the guy spends a lot of time explaining that Vedanta is not science and it is not religion but didn't spend a great deal of time saying what it actually is, so I'm still a bit unclear.
So what I'm asking is, I got that it's a focus on ones self and ones own experience and that study /knowledge of it somehow alleviates suffering? Am I heading in the right direction? I'm not exactly sure if I'm understanding it correctly?
How does it achieve this? Through meditation? Personal reflection?
How would you describe it? As a way if life? A worldview? A system of thought? Maybe not a philosophy, but something else?
So for example a definition of humanism is not so much a philosophy but:
"an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems."
In contast, Vedanta seem to be more a focus on ones self rather than others. Would that be accurate?
Sorry if that seems like a lot of questions.
Quote:
As someone unfamiliar with Vedanta I thought it was a good explanation. Perhaps before we get too far along, someone could explain the idea of Vedanta as a standalone concept. (Is it philosophy? The guy says it isn't but to me it is, so I'm not sure how to refer to it.)
I thought you wanted to know what Vedanta is, and whether it is a philosophy. I tried to respond to that.
The other things you are asking about cannot be covered in a post or in a forum such as this, at least I am not capable of that. I am not trying to by coy, but the subject you are asking about does require some amount of study and effort at understanding. It seems to me like trying to teach you how to speak French in a post.
I forgot to mention those indoctrinated in the esoteric literature are also resistant to the sixth attribute. QED!
Quote:
Without Consciousness, everything, self-conscious or not, is only a chaos of unorganized units of Substance.
I wouldn't know what or how things will be without Consciousness, Mystic. All I know is it is the way it is.
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