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Admitting that I was 1000% convinced of a falsehood was no easy pill to swallow.
That is true. And the interlocking set of memes that is Christianity do a great job of getting lots of ego investment and buy-in to the rightness of your beliefs. Particularly in the fundagelical world, where you have to say it loud and proud to one and all, usually with a good dash of judgment ... well to retract THAT sort of witness is something.
There was a troubled "bad boy" in my high school class who I had gotten along with okay as I was willing to see him as something other than a fool and talked to him like a fellow human being. As a result I was one of the few he didn't beat up, as he had decided I was alright, lol. I went to class reunions a few times over the years and he kept asking me if I still believed all that stuff I'd so confidently told him. I reaffirmed everything at the 5th year reunion, less enthusiastically and more evasively for the 10th, and at the 15th I had to admit I had completely changed my views and no longer believed. In fact I think he was the first person I actually admitted it to outside my own immediate family. Even though he wasn't the brightest light on the porch, I think he had known all along that I was overcompensating for a lack of evidence. He just nodded and smiled. I had been a little concerned that he would be disillusioned at my apostasy but he had me pegged all along. That's some humble pie!
One of the best ads I have ever seen is the Master Class ad featuring Neil Degrasse Tyson.
I haven't taken any of the Master Class classes -- and don't intend to since you have to buy the whole package -- but that's not my point. Just in the ad he talks about: "One of the greatest challenges in this world is knowing enough about a subject to think that you are right, but not enough about a subject to know that you are wrong".
And that applies to so much that we see in religion.
The ad lasts several minutes (you can Google it), and it's more interesting than most things I see on You Tube.
This makes me think of Mataroda, who left here some years ago. She was a fan of Neil's and actually had dreams of working for or with him in some capacity. I wouldn't be surprised if she is partaking of that class.
That is true. And the interlocking set of memes that is Christianity do a great job of getting lots of ego investment and buy-in to the rightness of your beliefs. Particularly in the fundagelical world, where you have to say it loud and proud to one and all, usually with a good dash of judgment ... well to retract THAT sort of witness is something.
There was a troubled "bad boy" in my high school class who I had gotten along with okay as I was willing to see him as something other than a fool and talked to him like a fellow human being. As a result I was one of the few he didn't beat up, as he had decided I was alright, lol. I went to class reunions a few times over the years and he kept asking me if I still believed all that stuff I'd so confidently told him. I reaffirmed everything at the 5th year reunion, less enthusiastically and more evasively for the 10th, and at the 15th I had to admit I had completely changed my views and no longer believed. In fact I think he was the first person I actually admitted it to outside my own immediate family. Even though he wasn't the brightest light on the porch, I think he had known all along that I was overcompensating for a lack of evidence. He just nodded and smiled. I had been a little concerned that he would be disillusioned at my apostasy but he had me pegged all along. That's some humble pie!
I don't know if it is a pantheistic version, am not quite sure what pantheism is. It seems to me more like the Santa Claus version. I believe this is what we are told as children, because a spiritual/philosophical explanation is something one needs to grow into by oneself, with some help perhaps.
Did you not ever feel there is something superficial and fairy tale like about this vision, a need to question and try to to understand if there is more to this?
Also may I ask, as an adult do you still believe this is all there is to the idea of God?
Being that our exploration of god has been framed quite differently, I recognize that discussion on the topic, is akin to conversing in 2 foreign languages simultaneously.
This was not simply a childhood belief, it is what most judeo-christians of assorted flavors believe, minus all the divergent details commensurate with their respective denominations.
To answer your question; No, I can observe many different IDEAS of what god is, and these forums display just how varied they are. Which is why, I'll often attempt to open a dialog with, "Define God", so that we can reduce the chances of talking past each other a little bit. Of all the ideas of versions of god(s) I have come in contact with, I've never seen a reason to give any one more credibility than any other. Additionally, I don't see why it matters, if there were one or more god, they certainly have little bearing in the world we live in. At best the belief in god(s) makes some people behave better and others worse for a net gain of irrelevant. Most people just want to use their version of the idea of god to control and manipulate the lives of others, for what?. I need no part of that.
No, I KNEW GOD, until I realized it was just me, and every reason, including my extensive time 'communing' with him, was still just me. Frankly, it's embarrassing to pen these words.
Being that our exploration of god has been framed quite differently, I recognize that discussion on the topic, is akin to conversing in 2 foreign languages simultaneously.
This was not simply a childhood belief, it is what most judeo-christians of assorted flavors believe, minus all the divergent details commensurate with their respective denominations.
To answer your question; No, I can observe many different IDEAS of what god is, and these forums display just how varied they are. Which is why, I'll often attempt to open a dialog with, "Define God", so that we can reduce the chances of talking past each other a little bit. Of all the ideas of versions of god(s) I have come in contact with, I've never seen a reason to give any one more credibility than any other. Additionally, I don't see why it matters, if there were one or more god, they certainly have little bearing in the world we live in. At best the belief in god(s) makes some people behave better and others worse for a net gain of irrelevant. Most people just want to use their version of the idea of god to control and manipulate the lives of others, for what?. I need no part of that.
What kinds of responses did you get for your query, Define God? Were there any that were different than what you expected, anything that you found interesting? Of course you realize this is an inquiry where the respondents are self selected. There might have been those who may not have been drawn to such a finite and simplistic way of talking about what moves them spiritually, their idea of God. Those who did might have been those who believed just like you. I dont know.
Why do you ask that question and what do you expect to find out, considering your response above?
Were there any that were different than what you expected, anything that you found interesting? Of course you realize this is an inquiry where the respondents are self selected. There might have been those who may not have been drawn to such a finite and simplistic way of talking about what moves them spiritually, their idea of God. Those who did might have been those who believed just like you. I dont know.
It's really more than a singular event. I mean I looked around on the topic a long
time. Sometimes as a purely data gathering effort. I.e. researching cultures across history and their MANY gods. Sometimes to understand the more currently revered gods and trying to understand why by both documentation, and by verbal inquiry. And then lastly, by searching for communication with the god. I've acquired a whole library of religious/spiritual topics, however I had to move cross-country a couple times in the last few years, so I ended up letting go a much of it. Since I no longer think there is much reason to believe and deities exist, I haven't put much more effort it, as I'm not desperate to have or prove god, it scarcely more than a pastime anymore. I do enjoy conversing with people that have dedicated enough time to their own belief systems as a social topic, and to learn new ideas. But I expect little in regards to finding a god, that I've no reason to think exists. That ship has already set sail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Why do you ask that question and what do you expect to find out, considering your response above?
It was rhetorical, I don't expect a any new answer(s) as to why people like to control each other.
It's really more than a singular event. I mean I looked around on the topic a long
time. Sometimes as a purely data gathering effort. I.e. researching cultures across history and their MANY gods. Sometimes to understand the more currently revered gods and trying to understand why by both documentation, and by verbal inquiry. And then lastly, by searching for communication with the god. I've acquired a whole library of religious/spiritual topics, however I had to move cross-country a couple times in the last few years, so I ended up letting go a much of it. Since I no longer think there is much reason to believe and deities exist, I haven't put much more effort it, as I'm not desperate to have or prove god, it scarcely more than a pastime anymore. I do enjoy conversing with people that have dedicated enough time to their own belief systems as a social topic, and to learn new ideas. But I expect little in regards to finding a god, that I've no reason to think exists. That ship has already set sail.
It was rhetorical, I don't expect a any new answer(s) as to why people like to control each other.
Thank you for your response. I think I have a better insight on how an atheist deals with the God project.
ETA: i finally went back to look at the thread you pointed to that are examples of people’s responses about their belief in God. Sorry, that must have been the wrong thread. That was the Atheist Evangelism thread. More atheists posting why they disbelieve in god, and so must you. LOL.
Last edited by cb2008; 01-05-2022 at 05:57 AM..
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