Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In a way, your approach divesting yourself of all contemplation or judgment about whatever happens is HOW suffering is eliminated. Suffering IS the contemplation and judging of the "rightness, fairness, justness, benevolence, decency, etc." of whatever happens, as exemplified by Thrillobyte's angst and diatribes. Accepting that it "just happens" can be an effective strategy.
I think all religions try to explain/justify/rationalize suffering. Probably why many religions even came to be.
To me, none of them can accomplish that. I think suffering is beyond our ability to understand because it is coming from someplace else we cannot access.
IME, it certainly does not make anyone "stronger", lol. One might come out a different person, altered permanently, but I wouldn't call it "stronger". More cynical, probably. Just my opinion, of course.
I think that what you're expressing is sort of close to my view...at least in a general sense.
I just went through a few weeks knowing that it was likely I had cancer, waiting for the biopsy to be done and the results to come in. I continued doing most of the things I usually do. It may not have looked like I was suffering, but I was. Will I die? Will I suffer through radiation or chemo? Radioactive iodine? What will the extent of surgery be? Will it cure me? What will happen to my pet? I was lucky to get a surprise benign diagnosis. I still have to have surgery later in the summer, but I don't have to worry about cancer.
One of my neighbors has lung cancer. Another multiple myeloma. The former is probably okay now, but will need to be checked regularly; that will be stressful. The latter is doing okay. Plays gold several times a week, but confided to me that he knows it's just a matter of time. A third neighbor is terminal in terms of cancer. A few months. Going downhill. She's putting on a good face, but as you say it's cliched behavior.
We may be able to control how we act toward suffering, but even Buddha taught that the only total elimination from suffering is death and no rebirth.
I think that what you're expressing is sort of close to my view...at least in a general sense.
I just went through a few weeks knowing that it was likely I had cancer, waiting for the biopsy to be done and the results to come in. I continued doing most of the things I usually do. It may not have looked like I was suffering, but I was. Will I die? Will I suffer through radiation or chemo? Radioactive iodine? What will the extent of surgery be? Will it cure me? What will happen to my pet? I was lucky to get a surprise benign diagnosis. I still have to have surgery later in the summer, but I don't have to worry about cancer.
One of my neighbors has lung cancer. Another multiple myeloma. The former is probably okay now, but will need to be checked regularly; that will be stressful. The latter is doing okay. Plays gold several times a week, but confided to me that he knows it's just a matter of time. A third neighbor is terminal in terms of cancer. A few months. Going downhill. She's putting on a good face, but as you say it's cliched behavior.
We may be able to control how we act toward suffering, but even Buddha taught that the only total elimination from suffering is death and no rebirth.
nope.
"This is what he discovered: there is an end to suffering; it can happen to anybody, anywhere, here and now; and the key to ending all suffering is to remove all desire, ill will and ignorance. The Buddha said, and demonstrated through his own life, that Nirvana can be achieved in our lives, while living — it is not a place to which we go after death. Buddhists believe that we can eradicate all the causes of suffering in this life, and achieve enlightenment — live in bliss, if we follow the Buddha's teachings."
"This is what he discovered: there is an end to suffering; it can happen to anybody, anywhere, here and now; and the key to ending all suffering is to remove all desire, ill will and ignorance. The Buddha said, and demonstrated through his own life, that Nirvana can be achieved in our lives, while living — it is not a place to which we go after death. Buddhists believe that we can eradicate all the causes of suffering in this life, and achieve enlightenment — live in bliss, if we follow the Buddha's teachings."
Then I am going to have to point out that, just as 2,000 years of Christianity has failed to convert 2/3 of the world and produced endless schisms and disputes, some 2,500 years of Buddhism has failed to produce more than a very debatable handful of "fully realized" humans this side of the grave.
It might be possible, but I am certainly not devoting the relatively few years I have left in pursuit of it, lol. However ... as I've mentioned, there are some good and highly borrowable ideas in Buddhism, which is more than I can say for most religions. These ideas might take the hard knife-edge off of suffering. So there's that.
"This is what he discovered: there is an end to suffering; it can happen to anybody, anywhere, here and now; and the key to ending all suffering is to remove all desire, ill will and ignorance. The Buddha said, and demonstrated through his own life, that Nirvana can be achieved in our lives, while living — it is not a place to which we go after death. Buddhists believe that we can eradicate all the causes of suffering in this life, and achieve enlightenment — live in bliss, if we follow the Buddha's teachings."
Then I am going to have to point out that, just as 2,000 years of Christianity has failed to convert 2/3 of the world and produced endless schisms and disputes, some 2,500 years of Buddhism has failed to produce more than a very debatable handful of "fully realized" humans this side of the grave.
It might be possible, but I am certainly not devoting the relatively few years I have left in pursuit of it, lol. However ... as I've mentioned, there are some good and highly borrowable ideas in Buddhism, which is more than I can say for most religions. These ideas might take the hard knife-edge off of suffering. So there's that.
Yes. A total end to suffering is something that VERY FEW...I mean VERY FEW... people ever obtain. 'We' may do our best, 'We' may reduce suffering. But I can't say that I've ever personally known a single person, including a single Buddhist, who would claim to have eliminated ALL suffering.
"This is what he discovered: there is an end to suffering; it can happen to anybody, anywhere, here and now; and the key to ending all suffering is to remove all desire, ill will and ignorance. The Buddha said, and demonstrated through his own life, that Nirvana can be achieved in our lives, while living — it is not a place to which we go after death. Buddhists believe that we can eradicate all the causes of suffering in this life, and achieve enlightenment — live in bliss, if we follow the Buddha's teachings."
It's interesting that you pull that from buddhanet (a good, but not unerring site), but fail to accept that Buddhism is not just another path to god from the same site (Do Buddhists believe in god? "No, we do not").
Suffering is how you build character and strength.
Think about going to the gym - you are literally ripping your muscles (suffering) so that they will grow back stronger.
In the cosmic scale of this universe, suffering may be inevitable, but is also useful for building character and growing stronger.
Well here again the definition of "suffering" is slippery and starts to elude us again. You are equating it with "experiencing pain" and I think the entire point of Buddhism is that suffering has to do not with pain but with attachment and grasping and control.
One can go to the gym with a "no pain, no gain" mindset and push through the pain to a place of physical mastery, like my stepson has done. He's become a beast. His personal trainer comes every Tuesday and tortures him, and he just is to a point now where he tortures himself just for the fun of it, lol.
Or one can go to the gym with a "pain bad, pleasure good" mindset and run screaming from the place, like me. By the Buddhist conception, I am suffering and my stepson is not, but we would both be in pain.
Well here again the definition of "suffering" is slippery and starts to elude us again. You are equating it with "experiencing pain" and I think the entire point of Buddhism is that suffering has to do not with pain but with attachment and grasping and control.
One can go to the gym with a "no pain, no gain" mindset and push through the pain to a place of physical mastery, like my stepson has done. He's become a beast. His personal trainer comes every Tuesday and tortures him, and he just is to a point now where he tortures himself just for the fun of it, lol.
Or one can go to the gym with a "pain bad, pleasure good" mindset and run screaming from the place, like me. By the Buddhist conception, I am suffering and my stepson is not, but we would both be in pain.
I think to a degree, pain and suffering are not distinct.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
