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All kinds of experiences exist in abundance for everybody.What is missing so far is a coherent reasoning and/or shredof good evidence that would allow rational person to objectively establish any kind of connection between those experiences and what people call "divinity".The connection always is mental, imaginary. It is not enough to be taken seriously. There has to be a way to separate subjective imagination from objective reality. We already had this subjective/ objective discussion and you already summarized your position like this.And in response I asked you a question that was left unanswered.May be you just missed it, so let me repeat this question again here Does it mean that you allow for yourself to have an "alternative" facts and perfectly fine with subscribing to contradictions?You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but no answer will be takes as "YES".After all, Silence implies consent, right?
you don't get to stuff your own words into other people's mouths.
i don't find that to be coherent or rational conversation.
i don't take posts seriously which do that.
it seems to me that you have a preconceived script you are following and are writing the words you expect others to say. given that, feel free to carry on both sides of the conversation yourself.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-11-2022 at 09:24 AM..
I'd suggest this notion of yours about "nothing more natural than recognizing the divinity within each of us" is a good example of intellectual misunderstanding. You may be describing your personal experience and/or opinion, but there is no real justification to claim such a notion is a fact or the truth. Certainly not for everyone. PS: I don't know about all this having to do with dancing, but I do know some people think they can dance but in reality, they really can't...
people understand things which you do not.
that does not make their own understanding a "misunderstanding."
for instance people in advanced math university courses understand calculus.
people in preschool learning simple addition do not understand calculus.
It is inaccurate then for the preschoolers to say that those in university advanced math "misunderstand" calculus, and for the preschoolers to question the "fact or truth" of calculus.
The question is not whether or not people have individual 'spiritual' experiences. The question is really whether or not all those personal 'experiences' can be trusted.
Is every psychic always right? Do all psychics agree on topics? Are all psychics really psychics?
Is every religionist who has visions always right? Do all religionists who have visions agree on topics? Are all religionists who have visions sane? When religionists have dreams, do all those dreams reflect reality? Did my crazy Aunt Millie's religious proclamations have meaning, or was she just being crazy?When a Muslim tells me that the christian religion is blasphemous...does that mean it is?But you want to attribute all those things to divinity, or as I would call it woo-woo. If it's woo-woo, you love it.It's very easy to say that all religions are paths to the same god. Until you have one religion literally fighting against -- and killing people -- another religion. Sometimes to the point of nearly destroying cultures. But I guess that kind of religious hate is simply 'divinity'.
those are your own thoughts and views. they are not my thoughts and views. they are not a reflection of nor do they accurately represent my own thoughts and views. others may wish to respond to those many questions asked in post above here in the Ask an Atheist thread.
Things worth considering and contemplating are never simple. Reasonable people can discuss Complexities and hold complex things in their mind.
I . “Simply lack of belief in gods†does not say anything about evidence. If there is evidence it is no longer belief.
A belief is never based on evidence, that is why it is belief. It is based on other things, such as experience, knowledge, wisdom. All real things.
An atheist can reasonably say, i have is no evidence for the existence of god. That is a simple statement.
No. Belief is -- hopefully for most intelligent people -- based at least on some evidence.
For example, christians believe in god and cite the bible as their evidence.
people understand things which you do not.
that does not make their own understanding a "misunderstanding."
for instance people in advanced math university courses understand calculus.
people in preschool learning simple addition do not understand calculus.
It is inaccurate then for the preschoolers to say that those in university advanced math "misunderstand" calculus, and for the preschoolers to question the "fact or truth" of calculus.
But it also doesn't make their understanding right.
those are your own thoughts and views. they are not my thoughts and views. they are not a reflection of nor do they accurately represent my own thoughts and views. others may wish to respond to those many questions asked in post above here in the Ask an Atheist thread.
After one of our differences several months ago, that night I dreamed you are a witch. Does that vision of mine mean I was correct?
I think some Atheists try to use humour to make a point.
whether it was a flip remark or not, it still has generated a great set of questions for Ask an Atheist. And these are sincere questions, so thank you to the atheist who boldly stepped forward and shared his dream, and for the atheists who are willing to respond to this set of questions:
How do atheists view their own dreams which they have which include elements of paths of religion and spirituality? When atheists hear of another atheist who shares he is dreaming of elements of religion and spirituality, what do you as an atheist think about that? What does it mean when an atheist is dreaming of elements of religion and spirituality? If an atheist is dreaming of witches in the context of CD forum discussions, then what does that signify, with regards to that atheist's own path of religion and spirituality?
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-11-2022 at 10:01 AM..
Moderator cut: Quoted post removed. It has been deleted.
You seem to miss the point here.
When I was a child I had 2 repetitive dreams. One that I was being chased by stumps whose roots were like legs. The other that I was riding a bicycle along a narrow ridge that was only about 3" wide with steep drop-offs on each side. I guess you could define those as visions since they were dreams.
I don't believe in witches or witchcraft. Doesn't mean I can't have a dream about it.
So my question is -- why should any of us be expected to just accept someone's dreams/visions as being reality, as being divinity, as being spiritual?
Last edited by mensaguy; 09-13-2022 at 05:05 AM..
Reason: Quoted post deleted.
it's still a great set of questions for Ask an Atheist.
How do atheists view their own dreams which they have which include elements of paths of religion and spirituality?
I have had dreams regarding different things in Buddhism. I accept those dreams as simply reflections of experiences I have had in Buddhist environments, or regarding things I have read in my study of Buddhism. I do not see them as religious/spiritual phenomenon, any more than the myriad of silly dreams I have about a thousands of topics.
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