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Spiritual discernment is essential. Your right, I could believe some wacky stuff without it.
Frankly, many if us are wandering in the dark most of the time.
Which is one if the reasons I'm skeptical of those that are absolutely sure they possess the "truth".
It really us ok with me that I don't have all the answers, or always KNOW.
We're working out our salvation. Sometimes with a little more fear and trembling than othertimes.
I certainly don't have all the answers either. More questions than answers I'd say, but then again I'm always appreciating what answers I/we can conclude upon when possible. AKA the truth.
Yeah, that can be seriously dangerous, as in Under the Banner of Heaven, a non-fiction account of brothers Ron and Dan Lafferty who committed a double murder in the name of God who "spoke to them" in the way you describe.
Of course we all have this "internal dialogue" all the time, and when I got to thinking about the nature of that "back-and-forth," it does seem very easy to ascribe that other voice to just about anything we like. To put it another way, if we think we're hearing the voice of God by way of that other voice, how would we be able to tell the difference? Or know it's not actually God but our own internal dialogue?
Sure we have a voice, or maybe different voices with different motivations, that can "talk" to us within. But that doesn't mean that is what we call "God".
If you actually have spiritual familiarity in these matters, you can separate that which is human and that which is beyond. And the "beyond" shows up in other ways eternally.
This isn't child's play, and shouldn't be left to initial impressions or wandering thoughts. This is something to review deeply, over time (even decades), letting it show itself rather than us being in the driver's seat and directing where we think it ought to go. The latter approach is all too easy and common, and brings no understanding or enlightenment.
There are times when an eternal, more superior way needs to be directing the thoughts and revealing matters. The human isn't the king of the universe like many feebly attempt. Even stepping outside the Earth, and looking down, there are very little obvious signs of humanity. And more distance shows no signs of human life. The more we realize how little we know, the more we can be ready and receptive to things we'd normally never be listening or looking for.
It is told that there are two voices in our head that speak to us from time to time. The story is told in a variety of ways, but the essence is the same: one voice is the voice of evil, that prompts you to do things you know you should not do. The other tells you to do the thing that you know is right, but you don't want to do. As the story goes, who you become as a person relates to which side you listen to and act upon.
In my view, those two voices are your subconscious. God's voice is still and quiet; it is the one that guides you to know which voice is wrong.
I suppose that's one story and no doubt there is more than one story...
I can appreciate how sometimes that other voice is suggesting we think or do things we just keep to ourselves, because more often than not we can't control what thoughts that "other voice" seems to be conjuring from who knows where. However, it isn't always about good vs bad. That other voice has helped me reason answers to problems. Has helped me through trying times. There are many ways in which that "other voice" helps us get by while other times it's no help at all. All again to say how easy it would be to feel your perhaps hearing an external voice rather than an internal one.
One possibility that helps to explain how some people might think they're having a dialogue with God when really they are not. It can be awfully convincing in any case...
I believe that that is your conscience (together with your sub-conscience).
I believe it is incumbent on us to strive for a 'well formed conscience' ;
perhaps our childhood was not under our control, but as adults we can and should continue to shape/form/grow our conscience - it's a lifelong process.
Google 'well formed conscience' if you want a further explanation of that is.
A well formed conscience will be able to properly discern between self-thoughts, and private revelation from God.
I also believe that we (our awake conscience) can and should master our sub-conscience, to every degree that it is possible - failure to progress here leaves one closer to an animalistic state, rather than what we are truly capable of.
It isn't always so clear to me what is our conscience vs our sub-conscience, but I agree the effort to have a "well formed conscience" is what I might otherwise just call making good choices (as good old mom used to recommend). I'm not sure how one might discern between self-thoughts and "private revelation from God." I certainly don't have that challenge as an atheist, but I know I've had experiences and thoughts born from those experiences that I would like to believe have helped me develop a "well formed conscience."
A better formed conscience in any case. Indeed, always a work-in-progress...
It's also well-documented that people with psychosis hear voices. It is also well-documented that people have inner narratives. Hence the old chestnut, "it's okay to talk to yourself so long as you don't also answer".
No top secret government projects needed to explain it. Though I am sure they have looked into how it might be manipulated for purpose of war or controlling the populace, I don't think we need to wonder if our inner thoughts are coming from Uncle Sam. It wouldn't be that sophisticated. There's not a control room somewhere (dis)approving of your every thought.
I am always fascinated by Jayne's theory of the bicameral mind, which suggests that prior to an epigenetic shift a few thousand years ago, people routinely experienced voices instructing them and guiding them, and mistook these for the voices of gods. When we started living in cities in closer proximity to other humans, these were submerged into our subconscious and today people who hear voices are considered "not right in the head". Indeed, people with schizophrenia hang onto sanity by reminding themselves that these voices are in their heads and can often be commanded into silence.
So I think it is a false dichotomy that voices either come from god or the forces of evil. I think it is just a function of how integrated the various compartments of our thought processes are. They are all inner voices, even when they seem to have their own volition or advocate for dysfunctional actions. I don't hear voices, but I often feel competing concerns pulling me in different directions, and have to decide which one(s) to "listen" to. This is just the human condition, not some supernatural thing.
As usual, I tend to agree with you, and what strikes me as unique about considering this "other voice" is that none of us need deny or debate it exists. We all know it, and we all know it is very easy to think that voice isn't us. Sometimes I really have to wonder, because I know it isn't all that rare to catch myself asking, "why am I thinking about this?" Having these thoughts...
"Where are these thoughts coming from?" Something like I have to wonder about my dreams too. I dream pretty vividly every night. I wake up and have to wonder "where is that coming from?" Easy to think the source is something external, but it's also easy to understand it's not.
Sure we have a voice, or maybe different voices with different motivations, that can "talk" to us within. But that doesn't mean that is what we call "God".
If you actually have spiritual familiarity in these matters, you can separate that which is human and that which is beyond. And the "beyond" shows up in other ways eternally.
This isn't child's play, and shouldn't be left to initial impressions or wandering thoughts. This is something to review deeply, over time (even decades), letting it show itself rather than us being in the driver's seat and directing where we think it ought to go. The latter approach is all too easy and common, and brings no understanding or enlightenment.
There are times when an eternal, more superior way needs to be directing the thoughts and revealing matters. The human isn't the king of the universe like many feebly attempt. Even stepping outside the Earth, and looking down, there are very little obvious signs of humanity. And more distance shows no signs of human life. The more we realize how little we know, the more we can be ready and receptive to things we'd normally never be listening or looking for.
Not child's play by any means...
Having worked as an Executive Coach, I know this effort to control one's thoughts and/or emotions is nothing to take for granted. It isn't at all easy for a lot of people. Take someone who is dealing with depression for example. Can they work on their thoughts to break free of depression or at least do better? Feel better? Quiet that other voice that is doing us no good? I know it took quite a bit of work for me, and I'm glad to attest to the fact it can be done. Took a little longer than I would have liked, but can be done.
Sure we have a voice, or maybe different voices with different motivations, that can "talk" to us within. But that doesn't mean that is what we call "God".
If you actually have spiritual familiarity in these matters, you can separate that which is human and that which is beyond. And the "beyond" shows up in other ways eternally.
This isn't child's play, and shouldn't be left to initial impressions or wandering thoughts. This is something to review deeply, over time (even decades), letting it show itself rather than us being in the driver's seat and directing where we think it ought to go. The latter approach is all too easy and common, and brings no understanding or enlightenment.
There are times when an eternal, more superior way needs to be directing the thoughts and revealing matters. The human isn't the king of the universe like many feebly attempt. Even stepping outside the Earth, and looking down, there are very little obvious signs of humanity. And more distance shows no signs of human life. The more we realize how little we know, the more we can be ready and receptive to things we'd normally never be listening or looking for.
I see a depth of spiritual experience in this post that is probably missed by most readers in this forum who have little to no spiritual discipline or experiences. It is more than possible to discern the source of spiritual experiences that emanate from our subconscious and those which are external. But it requires the development of significant discipline and rigor over the altered states attained. If you can alter the experiences in any way, you can be assured their origin is you and your subconscious. If you can NOT alter them, you can be assured they are external.
It isn't always so clear to me what is our conscience vs our sub-conscience, but I agree the effort to have a "well formed conscience" is what I might otherwise just call making good choices (as good old mom used to recommend). I'm not sure how one might discern between self-thoughts and "private revelation from God." I certainly don't have that challenge as an atheist, but I know I've had experiences and thoughts born from those experiences that I would like to believe have helped me develop a "well formed conscience." A better formed conscience in any case. Indeed, always a work-in-progress...
regarding bold above
again, "conscious" is not the same as "conscience"
and "sub conscious" yes we have. no "sub-conscience"
for clarity in communicating ideas in this arena
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