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Old 11-14-2022, 11:26 AM
 
29,548 posts, read 9,716,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Nobody denies the value of the internet nor that it can be a great source when used judiciously and with care. But it cannot replace books, not yet. Yes you can read a book electronically, but first the book exists.
There is no equal in the internet to reading a book with references, index, notes and have it on hand for ready reference. Nobody who does serious study of any sort will ever believe the internet can replace libraries and books. They are very different and unequal forms of scholarship.
Internet is only a resource not a replacement. It is a poor resource when it is very easy to be misguided and lied to on the internet, while also getting your device hacked. I don’t know how one can be in the tech. field and not know that since it is the techies who create the mischief in the first place.
Wait, wait, wait! "But first the book exists?" Wow. Yet another great piece of learning for me thanks to you and the Internet this morning.

How about learning that is not a function of EITHER the Internet or whatever other sources? How about an intelligent use of all resources we have at our disposal?
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Old 11-14-2022, 11:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Wait, wait, wait! "But first the book exists?" Wow. Yet another great piece of learning for me thanks to you and the Internet this morning.

How about learning that is not a function of EITHER the Internet or whatever other sources? How about an intelligent use of all resources we have at our disposal?
Well, first requirement would be intelligence. Lacking that, scholarship. That comes from reading, reading a lot of books.
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Old 11-14-2022, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
All my books are long gone too, and although there is hardly anything we can't find on the Internet in the way of information, I still go to the library on a regular basis to find books I enjoy reading. My wife has gone the way of reading books electronically, but I still prefer the hard backs...

Otherwise, I completely agree with what you explain here and might only add that I too enjoy following the studies and experiments about whatever happens to interest me, but I don't rely on the likes of Mastodon or Twitter to find those links. As you well note, the Internet provides a very broad spectrum of resources to gain knowledge and information, and for me anyway, the likes of Facebook, Twitter and those sorts of platforms are not the ones I prefer for the reasons I explained before. At the same time I know not everyone who enjoys those sites use them the same way or for the same reasons.
I am like your wife. I have had everything in Kindle for probably a decade now. I only buy paper books on those exceedingly rare occasions when it's not available in digital form AND it's something I absolutely must read. The searchability of the text, the highlighting features, etc are superior to books for my purposes. The portability is wonderful too. When I used to travel more, in the Long Ago before 2019 for example, it was nice to have your whole library -- including periodicals -- in your carry-on instead of having to content yourself with one or two books.

It took some doing but I got my wife hooked on this, too and now she reads vociferously on her iPad.

Oddly it is my adult stepson who still prefers paper books. In his case I think he likes that his library of books is a concrete testament to his learning. His autism and ADD has prevented him pursuing the post-grad work he really wishes he could. And he's a meticulous margin-annotator and highlighter as well, and I think he finds doing it more physically on paper to be gratifying. To each their own!

But my point was not that libraries are obsolete (they're not) or that paper books have no value (they do). Just that digital information is far from something to turn up your nose at.
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Old 11-15-2022, 09:51 AM
 
29,548 posts, read 9,716,744 times
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Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Well, first requirement would be intelligence. Lacking that, scholarship. That comes from reading, reading a lot of books.
Reading books and from any number of good alternative sources was my point. I just picked up my latest five from the library yesterday...

I don't always read for purposes of "scholarship," but it does seem there is no end to all I would like to know more about. I also read for pleasure. Or is that the same thing? Perhaps it's just a distinction between reading what some people would consider worth reading or not.

Unfortunately, I am forever regretting that I forget far more than I can ever remember from all the reading I do either way.
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Old 11-15-2022, 10:01 AM
 
29,548 posts, read 9,716,744 times
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Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I am like your wife. I have had everything in Kindle for probably a decade now. I only buy paper books on those exceedingly rare occasions when it's not available in digital form AND it's something I absolutely must read. The searchability of the text, the highlighting features, etc are superior to books for my purposes. The portability is wonderful too. When I used to travel more, in the Long Ago before 2019 for example, it was nice to have your whole library -- including periodicals -- in your carry-on instead of having to content yourself with one or two books.

It took some doing but I got my wife hooked on this, too and now she reads vociferously on her iPad.

Oddly it is my adult stepson who still prefers paper books. In his case I think he likes that his library of books is a concrete testament to his learning. His autism and ADD has prevented him pursuing the post-grad work he really wishes he could. And he's a meticulous margin-annotator and highlighter as well, and I think he finds doing it more physically on paper to be gratifying. To each their own!

But my point was not that libraries are obsolete (they're not) or that paper books have no value (they do). Just that digital information is far from something to turn up your nose at.
Reading about your stepson reminds me of so many youngsters (younger than me anyway) who are also vinyl nuts. Rather than listen to music by way of digital files like I long ago migrated to. Still have my 150 vinyl albums however. Can't seem to give them up, but even those I've transferred to digital files as well...

You have me wondering why I prefer reading paper books rather than digital. I think one reason is the want to do LESS looking into a lit computer screen or other electronic screen rather than more, and no doubt you are aware of some of the negative concerns about reading a lit screen at night. In terms of affect on sleep for example.

Also with respect to periodicals, magazines, it's hard to see the pictures on a little kindle as compared to some books like the one I got about Rembrandt at the library yesterday. Far too big a book for me to take on a plane, however. For the plane, I'll usually take along as small a book as I can find but long enough to last at least the length of my trip to and from. I make sure it's one that will content myself. Otherwise it's mostly doing the hardest Sudoku I can find in the airline magazine and watching the movies.

Last edited by LearnMe; 11-15-2022 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 11-16-2022, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,475,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Reading about your stepson reminds me of so many youngsters (younger than me anyway) who are also vinyl nuts. Rather than listen to music by way of digital files like I long ago migrated to. Still have my 150 vinyl albums however. Can't seem to give them up, but even those I've transferred to digital files as well...

You have me wondering why I prefer reading paper books rather than digital. I think one reason is the want to do LESS looking into a lit computer screen or other electronic screen rather than more, and no doubt you are aware of some of the negative concerns about reading a lit screen at night. In terms of affect on sleep for example.

Also with respect to periodicals, magazines, it's hard to see the pictures on a little kindle as compared to some books like the one I got about Rembrandt at the library yesterday. Far too big a book for me to take on a plane, however. For the plane, I'll usually take along as small a book as I can find but long enough to last at least the length of my trip to and from. I make sure it's one that will content myself. Otherwise it's mostly doing the hardest Sudoku I can find in the airline magazine and watching the movies.
I always turn the brightness of the screen down to a minimum when reading at bedtime, and I have configured the OS to warm up the color temperature after sunset as well. My wife prefers "dark mode" (white letters on black background basically), which I cannot stand personally; I want something that's as close to paper and ink as possible. To each their own.

I agree that coffee table books are not adequately represented in most digital formats. I can't always be at my 27" monitor to look at stuff like that. But for some reason we don't own a single coffee table style book. I guess we are not very art-oriented. Although here again my stepson has a few art history books in that large printed format, so we are not total Cretins.

We have two universities in my city and during the school year you constantly see students dragging wheeled suitcases full of textbooks and reference materials to and from class, so maybe there is still hope that everything will not forever be inconvenienced electrons.
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