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Music is in part based on a system that includes tonal scales and intervals/tunings and the patterns with which they are used. Modern classical music of the serialist school for example is based on an entirely different system from the rest of Western music that requires the same pattern to be repeated mathematically. It is grating and incoherent to me but my stepson loves it because he is attracted to its precision and structure, has taken the time to study how it works, and appreciates it on that level. He's also relatively young and it pleases him to be clued in about something that his mother and I are not.
In other words it all comes back to beauty being in the eye of the beholder. Yoko Ono's screaming was beautiful to her, apparently. But she was almost entirely alone in that view, and it certainly wasn't commercially viable. Serialism at least has a following, if only a small one. Albums are published. Dissertations are written. Careers are supported (though I doubt a musician not proficient first in standard repertoire will get very far professionally).
The parallel of all this with religion is that some religious people are doing the equivalent of saying that everyone must embrace "normal music" -- und ENJOY it! -- or else they are the Hated Other to whatever degree they can get away with that. Serialism is not just another genre, it is the undoing of western civilization and the motivations behind it are evil and an existential threat to Normal Music. Also, if wars had been fought and gulags built over whether Mozart or Beethoven would be played, they would deny that Normal Music is anything but a wonderful unified soaring testament to the best of everything in humanity. Music does not cause Beethoven enthusiasts to be tortured or beaten; that is on individuals and cannot possibly have anything to do with what is taught, promoted or encouraged by lovers of Mozart in the name of Mozart.
Well done!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
As a great lover of music and keyboard player myself, I very much appreciate your explanation and clarification here. Of course. I am also a big fan of Bob Dylan, my wife doesn't consider his signing music at all. Believe me, I get it...
Thanks for a nice way to corral all this music analogy into what seems a rather fair and acute summation as it all relates to religion. The parallel as you put it. Very nicely done. My compliments.
Much you explain here is exactly why the use of music as an analogy to discuss or explain religion is about as productive as using a candle in the wind to find your way out of the dark.
Clever phrasing but does not indicate any learning at all. Let it go.
Clever phrasing but does not indicate any learning at all. Let it go.
I sure wish my comments like this one of yours could indicate the great amount of learning you seem to have gained while I've only learned clever phrasing. Hey, but we can't all learn, be aware or know as much as people like you seem able. I for one am a mere mortal after all, bound by the confines of reality while people like you seem able to float somewhere out there well beyond my limitations. The air at those sorts of elevations must be quite rarefied indeed.
I sure wish my comments like this one of yours could indicate the great amount of learning you seem to have gained while I've only learned clever phrasing. Hey, but we can't all learn, be aware or know as much as people like you seem able. I for one am a mere mortal after all, bound by the confines of reality while people like you seem able to float somewhere out there well beyond my limitations. The air at those sorts of elevations must be quite rarefied indeed.
Opportunity to learn exists for everyone. What we choose to learn and where our energies lead us is shaped by our needs and wants. If all one wants to do is cull the Wikipedia, or find nifty quotes from shady sources, well that is one kind of learning. Better than nothing. To think studying Religion is somehow easy, all one needs to do is observe one’s own limited world and make grand statements about truth and lies, well there you are. It is a choice guided by one’s capabilities and interest.
Learning requires commitment and work and deriving pleasure from it. Finding tools to attack religion requires only to know how to use the internet.
Opportunity to learn exists for everyone. What we choose to learn and where our energies lead us is shaped by our needs and wants. If all one wants to do is cull the Wikipedia, or find nifty quotes from shady sources, well that is one kind of learning. Better than nothing. To think studying Religion is somehow easy, all one needs to do is observe one’s own limited world and make grand statements about truth and lies, well there you are. It is a choice guided by one’s capabilities and interest.
Learning requires commitment and work and deriving pleasure from it. Finding tools to attack religion requires only to know how to use the internet.
And, unfortunately, there is a desire for religious 'woo', leading to all sorts of falling for various forms of religion and spiritualism.
And yes, 'there you are' (using the royal 'you' in this case) making biased choices about what to study and how to study it, thus reinforcing your (using the royal 'your') limited world and thinking your grand statements are the right ways to interpret spiritualism and religion. Finding tools to attack atheists requires only to know how to use the internet.
And, unfortunately, there is a desire for religious 'woo', leading to all sorts of falling for various forms of religion and spiritualism.
And yes, 'there you are' (using the royal 'you' in this case) making biased choices about what to study and how to study it, thus reinforcing your (using the royal 'your') limited world and thinking your grand statements are the right ways to interpret spiritualism and religion. Finding tools to attack atheists requires only to know how to use the internet.
Reads like school yard bickering to me. Are you bickering by parroting my words?
Reads like school yard bickering to me. Are you bickering by parroting my words?
I'm holding up a mirror while also making a general statement about why people are attracted to religion.
A religious person becomes ill. He likes having a god to pray to to deliver him from his illness. Now, without me making a hundred other such statements, it's comforting to pray to a higher power when there is nothing we can do about a situation, or even when a situation is a challenge to us.
Opportunity to learn exists for everyone. What we choose to learn and where our energies lead us is shaped by our needs and wants. If all one wants to do is cull the Wikipedia, or find nifty quotes from shady sources, well that is one kind of learning. Better than nothing. To think studying Religion is somehow easy, all one needs to do is observe one’s own limited world and make grand statements about truth and lies, well there you are. It is a choice guided by one’s capabilities and interest.
Learning requires commitment and work and deriving pleasure from it. Finding tools to attack religion requires only to know how to use the internet.
Hi, I am Harry. I use science, logic, history and mathematics to 'attack' religion.
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