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Old 02-20-2024, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,956 posts, read 13,450,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
What frustrated me about the poster was the judgmental attitude about people who seek God in a different way from her.
I don't know ... she mentioned there are sincere christians and not-so-sincere ones and that her impression is that many just are covering the bases in case it's all actually true. And I have heard even Christians say things like that at times. I think you are assuming more about her motivations than you can actually know.
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Old 02-20-2024, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,775,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I don't know ... she mentioned there are sincere christians and not-so-sincere ones and that her impression is that many just are covering the bases in case it's all actually true. And I have heard even Christians say things like that at times. I think you are assuming more about her motivations than you can actually know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickofJersey View Post
I know what I'm about to say may upset some, but my belief is...

Most people go to church in an attempt to seek the end results should there be a Heaven and a God, not because they are true in their souls. Yes, there are true Christians, but I have met many, many more church going hypocrites who are thieves, cheats, and womanizers.

I have raised my daughter to believe that the truest gift to God is to be a good honest person and to help others without even the slightest expectation of reward. That is as God-like as anything else we could do.

Only in our own souls do we know our true self.
See the bolded/underlined.
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Old 02-21-2024, 06:27 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 6,561,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseShopper View Post
When I think about all the time we spend going to church, bowing, kneeling and praying to a God that may or may not exist; it makes me wonder why we spend so much time doing this when we really have no proof of God's existence and whether our religion is right in its beliefs. How did humans begin to dwell on such things? Like I said, we have no proof of any of this. Instead, why don't we spend our limited time here on earth trying to live a good life to its fullest. And I don't mean, going out to party and getting drunk. I'm talking about focusing on getting a good career and moving up, building good relationships with friends and your significant other, raising a nice family, helping others in need, etc.. If everyone focuses on just making their life worthwhile, I don't think it really matters what you believe in and how much we worship our God.

Now, keep in mind, I'm no atheist. I'm a Catholic and I go to church every Sunday. But part of me always wonders whether I'm doing it all for nothing should my God not exist. I always have that lingering doubt, admittedly. So am wasting all this time going to church and praying when I could be using that time for other wisely things?

I guess one can argue that going to church makes them a better person and helps them find purpose to living a good life. But I know many people that go to church and are really rotten people. And I know many people that don't go to church but are wonderful, kind-hearted people. So I don't think one has to go to church to be a good person.

So what are your thoughts? Do you think us humans dwell too much on religion/God/afterlife and instead should just focus on just living the best life possible?

WiseShopper— I apologize if I’ve misinterpreted your OP post, but I see a strange contradiction — you state at first that apparently you don’t believe in or have any proof of a God to believe in, and yet you say you are not an atheist.
Are you an agnostic?

My understanding is that you say you are putting time into a committed “religious” life (Catholicism , church activities, pope, priests, etc ) but not into your “SPIRITUAL” life ———-> having a personal RELATIONSHIP with God and or Jesus. your relationship seems to be with a religion, a denomination…

If you are not even sure if you BELIEVE in God —or personally experience God or Jesus, I suggest you focus on THAT in private contemplative prayer/meditation time.

Last edited by mountainrose; 02-21-2024 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 02-21-2024, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Alabama
13,611 posts, read 7,911,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseShopper View Post
When I think about all the time we spend going to church, bowing, kneeling and praying to a God that may or may not exist; it makes me wonder why we spend so much time doing this when we really have no proof of God's existence and whether our religion is right in its beliefs. How did humans begin to dwell on such things? Like I said, we have no proof of any of this. Instead, why don't we spend our limited time here on earth trying to live a good life to its fullest. And I don't mean, going out to party and getting drunk. I'm talking about focusing on getting a good career and moving up, building good relationships with friends and your significant other, raising a nice family, helping others in need, etc.. If everyone focuses on just making their life worthwhile, I don't think it really matters what you believe in and how much we worship our God.

Now, keep in mind, I'm no atheist. I'm a Catholic and I go to church every Sunday. But part of me always wonders whether I'm doing it all for nothing should my God not exist. I always have that lingering doubt, admittedly. So am wasting all this time going to church and praying when I could be using that time for other wisely things?

I guess one can argue that going to church makes them a better person and helps them find purpose to living a good life. But I know many people that go to church and are really rotten people. And I know many people that don't go to church but are wonderful, kind-hearted people. So I don't think one has to go to church to be a good person.

So what are your thoughts? Do you think us humans dwell too much on religion/God/afterlife and instead should just focus on just living the best life possible?
Living a fully and truly Catholic life is the best life possible.

One could argue that if Catholicism isn't true, then all of the suffering and self-denial is ultimately pointless; but one could also argue that it leads to an end of life with no regrets, peace of conscience, and where one is loved or at least respected by all.

I don't think many people lie on their deathbeds wishing that they had slept with more people, eaten more decadent foods, had more frivolous experiences in life, or just generally pursued more comfort and ease.
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Old 02-21-2024, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
Living a fully and truly Catholic life is the best life possible.

One could argue that if Catholicism isn't true, then all of the suffering and self-denial is ultimately pointless; but one could also argue that it leads to an end of life with no regrets, peace of conscience, and where one is loved or at least respected by all.

I don't think many people lie on their deathbeds wishing that they had slept with more people, eaten more decadent foods, had more frivolous experiences in life, or just generally pursued more comfort and ease.
I'll tell you what the problem is with that whole scenario -- as a former catholic for several decades -- I didn't see many catholic who truly lived the faith you speak of. They may have gone to every required mass ever offered, they may have taken all the sacraments, but it was SHALLOW catholicisim.
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Old 02-21-2024, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Alabama
13,611 posts, read 7,911,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'll tell you what the problem is with that whole scenario -- as a former catholic for several decades -- I didn't see many catholic who truly lived the faith you speak of. They may have gone to every required mass ever offered, they may have taken all the sacraments, but it was SHALLOW catholicisim.
Well yeah, Catholicism is really hard to do well. We are promised nothing in this life except the cross.

Many Saints have spoken and written about the fewness of the saved. Jesus Himself said: “For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
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Old 02-21-2024, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32903
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
Well yeah, Catholicism is really hard to do well. We are promised nothing in this life except the cross.

Many Saints have spoken and written about the fewness of the saved. Jesus Himself said: “For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
And every catholic I ever knew thought they would be one of those few. You probably think that, too.
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Old 02-21-2024, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Texas
155 posts, read 26,780 times
Reputation: 62
Church and the Bible are both necessary for living a good life. It's pretty simple.
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Old 02-21-2024, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32903
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaveOnn View Post
Church and the Bible are both necessary for living a good life. It's pretty simple.
No. There are other belief systems that serve millions of people as well...or better.

But, go ahead, rave on.
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Old 02-21-2024, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,956 posts, read 13,450,937 times
Reputation: 9910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
See the bolded/underlined.
It's just a personal opinion / observation, not an attack or existential threat to anyone.

I have long seen the same thing, as have many others. I'm not the first and won't be the last person to point out the hypocrisy in many Christians. That doesn't mean I hate them or want to destroy them or their freedom to believe what they wish, or have no empathy for them ... it just acknowledges that some (arguably most) folks are followers and prefer to be told what to think and believe, and then follow that uncritically.
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