Do we have to respect regilions of others ? and what are the limits between discussion and mockery? (Revelation, prophet)
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I guess your definition of "respect" is differant that mine.
I can't even find any dictionary definitions of "respect" that apply to Jesus' attitude towards false teachers.
Well, my definition of respect does not equal acceptance or condoning anything.
Do you know the scripture I was referencing? Should I try and find it to share?
Also, do you equate other 'religions' to 'false teachers'?
I've always thought the 'false teachers' were those claiming Christianity but preaching 'another gospel'.
Yes, Alpha. I know the scripture you are referencing. It is Paul speaking to the Athenians about all their idols. He was not speaking in respect of their religion. He was telling it like it was. Acts 17.22-23
He called their religion "ignorance". Did he "respect" something that He called ignorance ?
If I said what you believe is " ignorance", would you say I was "respecting" your religion ?
Any religion that is not the word of God is a false religion, therefore, the ones teaching them are false teachers.
And no, I do not "respect" such. I respect anyone's right to think falsely, but not the falseness itself. Does that make sense in your mind ?
Yes, Alpha. I know the scripture you are referencing. It is Paul speaking to the Athenians about all their idols. He was not speaking in respect of their religion. He was telling it like it was. Acts 17.22-23
He called their religion "ignorance". Did he "respect" something that He called ignorance ?
If I said what you believe is " ignorance", would you say I was "respecting" your religion ?
Any religion that is not the word of God is a false religion, therefore, the ones teaching them are false teachers.
And no, I do not "respect" such. I respect anyone's right to think falsely, but not the falseness itself. Does that make sense in your mind ?
I never thought of Jesus or His disciples as being disrespectful to anyone.
I still don't.
Some of His followers are very disrespectful though.
Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."
When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject." At that, Paul left the Council. A few men became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others. Acts 17:22-34
Ignorance means 'not knowing' not an insult to someone's intelligence.
I don't see any disrespect in that scripture I posted.
I wonder who sees disrespect in that quoted scripture.
Certainly not all those listening as "When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject." At that, Paul left the Council. A few men became followers of Paul and believed."
If you can't hold a conversation with someone without mocking them, don't bother. Mocking isn't even in the same league with scrutinizing and questioning.
Exactly, i agree with alpha here
"mocking" and in another post what was called "aggressive questioning" quite simply are verbal abuse (unless you're a trial lawyer, or on a debate team, but we're talking about social interactions here on this board and in life)
regardless of the topic being discussed (religion, politics, the weather) it is about what a person puts forth in their personal relationships, how they believe is ok to treat others. Hostility, sarcasm, mocking, condescension, bullying, personal attack, and insults are verbal abuse. The topic never justifies those. Or if a person does use them, own your own behavior, don't say the topic (whatever it is) justifies your bad behavior. Every person has to take responsibility for their own individual behavior.
also a person's motive in even engaging in a conversation are important
is someone asking questions to "prove someone wrong" or show them what an idiot they are? Or is someone asking questions with respect, for increased understanding, learning, or to gain information? Those motives color a conversation, and the way people treat each other.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-04-2008 at 12:52 PM..
But, above all, it will confer an inestimable benefit on morality and religion..
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSumRaja
is someone asking questions to "prove someone wrong" or is someone asking questions for increased understanding, learning, or to gain information? Those motives color a conversation, and the way people treat each other.
Proving someone wrong by means of questioning them.. I believe.. is known as the Socratic Method.. and it is an excellent means to get at the truth.. which in itself.. is a good and pure motive.
The only motives that are questionable.. are those who are offended by truth.. and who would rather bury their heads in the sand to avoid it.
Should we stop questioning what our politicians are doing because we don't want to hurt their feelings.. ?
In the same way.. should we stop questioning those who are teaching religion in a lame way.. ?
Should we question an atheist.. who is making bold claims about a book that he/she has obviously never read.. ?
The church elders are always in the news.. arguing about whether homosexuality is a sin.. and that women are not fit to join the priesthood (myself.. I would do away with the priests altogether).
Many are listening to their message of rejection.. and then are preaching it from the rooftops.
Shouldn't such false teachings be challenged.. regardless of the feelings of the ones who are promoting them.. ?
Since they only serve to distort the message of love.. and togetherness.
What would Jesus have said.. ?
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“ .. holding firmly to the faithful word as respects his art of teaching, that he may be able both to exhort by the teaching that is healthful and to reprove those who contradict.” – Titus 1:9
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CD is the politest forum I have ever come across. I found many forums have their intellectual heavyweights.. with their PHDs.. who devour more timid opinions.. like fire devouring dried leafs.
The only way to deal with these.. is to question them (statements are often easy meat). This way you don't give them any ammunition that they can turn round and use against you.. and you take control of the argument.. to stear it in any way you wish.
One just needs to be sensitive enough to decide when to use it.. and when not.
I always try to be sensitive to other people's feelings.. but if they are misleading.. then they are fair game.
If two philosophers are debating together.. there is nothing wrong with the Socratic method. It is tool to aid understanding.. from both sides of the argument A philosophical mind is geared to questioning anyway.
This IS a Philosophy and Religion forum.. and not a Christian forum. Hence.. I would think.. our primary motive is to get at the truth.. whatever the method.. as long as it is civil.
If people are so emotionally attached to the ideas that they hold to be true.. that they feel they shouldn't be scrutinized.. then they would be better off not posting here.
There is a Christain Forum and one for atheists.. and I never post is either of them.. because I respect that is their space.. while the RP is for those who want to debate and question.
Anyway.. isn't questioning is the hallmark of freedom.. ?
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“But, above all, it will confer an inestimable benefit on morality and religion, by showing that all the objections urged against them may be silenced for ever by the Socratic method, that is to say, by proving the ignorance of the objector.”
The Critique of Pure Reason - Immanuel Kant
Last edited by accelerator; 08-04-2008 at 03:28 PM..
I think that religions( Judaism, Christianity, Islam ,.... ) as personel beliefs should be respected . It is good to discuss and express our points of view, but we should do it without hurting the others feelings.
Here's my idea of respect: We need to give people so much (common courtesy, being cordial and so on, basically there is no need to be "hatin' ").
But after that, you have to earn it. For example, I have more respect for my father than you, doesn't mean I won't respect you, but I'm not about to respect you as much as my dad until you earn it. Thing is it can go the other way, I'm sure that if my dad did something to really have it coming, I would respect him a little less.
Same with religion and the people that make it up (I mean make it up in the organizing sense btw), I'll give them so much, but they have to earn more if they want it, and if they deserve it, I am going to give them less respect.
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Maybe the word "respect" is not being used quite correctly in this thread. "Respecting" a religion is sort of like "respecting" someone's recipe for chowder or the color your neighbor painted his house. You may have all the respect possible for the cook who made the chowder or for your neighbor who painted his house turquiose, but that doesn't mean you necessarilly respect the soup or the house paint. I think we all should show respect when respect is warranted, and even sometimes when it isn't, simply because it is a kindler, gentler thing to do...but respecting a religion is really rather senseless.
Now "respecting" someone's BELIEF is another story entirely. That has to do with the person him or herself. I respect my sister and her belief in Christianity, she lives her belief and she is a wonderful person...but the religion itself, "Christianity", I do not respect because it seems to have very little impact on my lfe and I don't see it as being a sensible thing. My sister would be a kind, caring and wonderful person even if she was a Druid or a Wiccan, that's just who she is...and so I respect her for her belief...just not her religion itself.
I am probably not making any sense at all...sorry. I know what I mean but can't seem to spit it out
Maybe the word "respect" is not being used quite correctly in this thread. "Respecting" a religion is sort of like "respecting" someone's recipe for chowder or the color your neighbor painted his house. You may have all the respect possible for the cook who made the chowder or for your neighbor who painted his house turquiose, but that doesn't mean you necessarilly respect the soup or the house paint. I think we all should show respect when respect is warranted, and even sometimes when it isn't, simply because it is a kindler, gentler thing to do...but respecting a religion is really rather senseless.
Now "respecting" someone's BELIEF is another story entirely. That has to do with the person him or herself. I respect my sister and her belief in Christianity, she lives her belief and she is a wonderful person...but the religion itself, "Christianity", I do not respect because it seems to have very little impact on my lfe and I don't see it as being a sensible thing. My sister would be a kind, caring and wonderful person even if she was a Druid or a Wiccan, that's just who she is...and so I respect her for her belief...just not her religion itself.
I am probably not making any sense at all...sorry. I know what I mean but can't seem to spit it out
I tried to rep you.. but can't.
I TOTALLY AGREE!!!............ (It's a miracle..;-))
When you wrote..
"My sister would be a kind, caring and wonderful person even if she was a Druid or a Wiccan, that's just who she is..."
This is - EXACTLY - what Jesus taught..
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In reply Jesus said to them: "Those who are healthy do not need a physician, but those who are ailing do. I have come to call, not righteous persons, but sinners to repentance."
Luke 5:31
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Which begs the question..
Is religion then.. only for sinners.. ?
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Last edited by accelerator; 08-04-2008 at 04:31 PM..
To mock others and be disrespectful is not Christian-like... To put people down and belittle them is not Christian-like... To show unkindness and malice towards others is not Christian-like... So, if you are Christian... you SHOULD be Christian-like... and I think, therefor, yes, you should be respectful...with your words and actions... but it does not mean you have to agree or respect their teachings... just the person and their feelings... think what you want but if you cannot say something NICE to someone then you should not say it about THEM... the religion of itself... that might be a different story... but I would still be careful in my wording.
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But, above all, it will confer an inestimable benefit on morality and religion..
