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And then there’s the “intentional community” you considered joining that is based on the Urantia Book. I can only assume this was the group in Sedona, AZ whose leader calls himself “Gabriel of Urantia”? But even if it's not, I have to share that reading about this guy seriously made me laugh out loud. He wants to be a rock star, inherit the earth and repopulate it, and apparently has connections to alien races or something like that.
Holy crap. But what I found most hilarious was Gabriel of Urantia’s list of favorite celebrities. He proudly proclaims that he’s met Nick Nolte (????), and then goes on to list all the celebs he’d “like to meet”. It’s hysterical:
So anyway, the bottom line Timothy, is that you seem to have been looking for the “right” cult for some time. Congrats on finding Gary, you got what you were looking for.
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
The struggle is something everyone else that I know has felt. It's plainly obvious to me. Perhaps a refresher on the Bhagavad Gita might help.
My question was lazy; I suppose you were just generically referring to forces of good vs. evil, consciousness towards matter vs. consciousness inward toward soul, renunciation of ego, etc. etc. and I agree everyone struggles with this in life. I suppose I was trying to pinpoint the struggles that led YOU, specifically, to seek guidance from gurus/cult leaders such as those mentioned above. Because though we all “struggle”, not all of us join a group consciousness or look into joining communes.
Sorry I couldn't honor your request and wait until you caught up to respond. Just happen to have free time right now waiting for a flight.
Dude, Timothy - until I saw that video I had forgotten what a load of crap all that MP stuff was. It sounds just like what Gary says, and it is all total crapola. (Thank you Violet11 for the other links, nut-job-central)
"your're in love with your logic...it is all based on relativity..."
Well OK let's be illogical and irrational and join a cult that follows a distorted, self-serving egotistical agenda of serving the personality of Gary Olsen instead. Huh isn't that the same thing as this Adi chap has?
Of course it is all relative, because we are all living relatively different lives because as relative as it might sound a bit off to you, but all of are living in a different bodies than yours, and so our viewpoints would naturally be relatively different than yours, so what? Why is that bad? Why is that wrong? By whose standards do you live your life, yours or Gary's?
Do you really believe all that stuff?
Never mind dude, you've drunk the kool-aid, and can't even tell that you've been poisoned, sorry I have to call it as I see it.
I'm sure you just forgot to type that the Section that chapter is in is titled: "The Hidden Spirituality Reflected within our Worldly Desires and Ideals" and the jist of the chapter was along the lines of how people substitute drugs for the meaningfulness and love and joy they feel to be absent, for which drugs substitute only but temporarily. I'm sure you also forgot to mention how the chapter says that an addicted person is not to be given the binding second initiation and that any second initiate that later decides to engage in chemical excess is rudely reminded that drugs and spirituality don't mix.
There was no “forgetting to mention” anything. I wasn’t giving a dissertation. All I was saying is that the chapter is a representative sample of how Gary capitalizes on certain weaknesses in people (ie. addiction) to create appeal for MasterPath. I can’t spend an hour explaining this, but in the chapter he mentions how addicts fail at sobriety more often than not, in essence insinuating hopelessness – and then goes on to say things like this:
“Interestingly enough, there is actually a similarity between this artificial change in consciousness [drugs/substances] and the appearance and impact of the true MasterPower’s Presence. When initiated, the Inner Master takes residence within the chela’s own body…and one’s state of consciousness is radically enhanced, much like the effects of taking a drug.” P. 177, MP Volume 1
The MP can be seen as (and becomes) the replacement drug. That’s pretty much Psych 101. Gary knows that too. That's the point.
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
The idea that a Guru should not ingest drugs for any reason is I think a bit unreasonable. Does anyone care to consider why he might, aside from being a dopehead, himself? I wonder if anyone would consider good reasons in addition to the negative ones that come so easily.
Unreasonable to think the guru should be sober? My, such low standards for the "word made flesh"! And no, I don’t care what reasons Gary has for being a dopehead. According to Gary’s own book:
“The ascension of one’s own state of consciousness should be able to take place within the twinkling of an eye, without needing to swallow, snort, or inhale anything.” P. 177 MP Volume 1
“So, in truth, substance abuse exists because the user knows nothing of the light and sound. The external substance may temporarily bring in more light, but it will also create more negative effects birthed from this errant cause”. P. 178-179 MP Volume 1
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
It's easy to assume he recruited me but the truth is that I asked him. I think I may have talked with him a grand total of 5-10 times before but never about MP. So I didn't know him that well. Not sure what you mean about how he would be viewed as a "spiritual example" as I definitely didn't look at him in that way. He was just some guy I felt was an avenue to where I wanted to be.
"Goggles" is better at recruitment than I thought if you actually believe it was all your idea. He posted a good portion of an MP book word for word, and went on to demean any views that didn’t support his infatuation. And this was someone you saw as “an avenue to where you wanted to be”. How is that so different from a “spiritual example” since you say you “definitely didn’t look at him” as a spiritual example? If this is your closest friend I’m sorry for you, and whatever he’s done “for you” was also done for him and his ego. But it's pointless to discuss, because you’re obviously totally enamored with someone I think is seriously disturbed, and similarly enamored with people known to be corrupt cult leaders and false gurus. Which tells me you might also be disturbed enough not to see what I'm getting at.
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
I'm not citing affordability =/= cult. I was stating a disagreement that anyone paying for spiritual study was breaking some moral spiritual law. Books cost, conferences cost, anything we use to rise on our own steam costs, just as MP costs. That was my point, entirely.
That “point” wasn’t the topic; you went in that direction on your own. But since you did, I would just say that RSSB sells books for a lot less than MP - perhaps easier to make the argument that they’re just covering the cost of printing. In contrast, Gary’s $400,000 grove of olive trees and MP’s 3.5 million dollar bank account as of 2005 suggest MP is collecting far more than it needs to cover “cost”.
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
The idea that a man that makes his living off labeling different systems "cults" and reverses their harmful effects, helping innocent victims return to "normal" life is what I was implying. I'd be interested in knowing the 10% that doesn't label it a cult. I haven't found that.
Here again you give off this vibe that you enjoy the idea of being in a "cult", as if it gives you some sort of rebel or outsider status, that you're "misunderstood". Similar to how a teenager might revel in outrageous dress/lifestyle while adults shake their heads at them. Like there’s a need to find identity with something that separates themselves from the idiot masses.
By the way, how old are you, Timothy?
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
I never used the word "prejudice" to describe this, but I did say that depending on your point of view you could look at it at least two ways, and I do stand by that.
Actually you did use the word prejudice here:
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
Depends on how you define a cult. Of course we all have our own definitions based on our prejudices.
As for you denouncing the use of the word "bigot" when I thanked you for not falling back on it...you should probably "spiritually redirect" your friend Allan about that.
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
I added context to a dreadfully one-sided and vitriolic depiction of what was said. You're welcome to add more if you want and be sure to copy-paste what was written earlier in the thread, in addition to my submitted quotes and post the whole shebang here so people can read a more accurate account of what was said.
You’re in denial and continue to blame other people. It’s sad. Gary's actual words were quoted in regards to bird flu. Descriptions of how his closest chelas and own office staff reacted to the seminar were shared. The subsequent doomsday flyer was posted word for word. You can continue trying to whitewash the bird flu boondoggle, but as end_of_faith said, you cannot erase the reality of what it was and how it damaged people.
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
What I said was that if you can have tons of money as part of your fate karma then donating or paying dues (of their own free will) would be investing in the freeing of attention energies from the need for money and moving more toward getting rich in spiritual imagery. Swapping energy in money for energy in spirit. There's nothing nefarious or manipulative in this assertion.
There actually is something manipulative and nefarious in the idea of "swapping energy in money for energy in spirit" when the central figure of your group is the only one benefiting from it financially. Plus, it just sounds like the same thing as selling magic beans. It's a scam. Even if chelas find personal satisfaction in blowing their money on Gary Olsen, it’s a scam. There is no such thing as selling karma liquidation for cash. Period.
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Originally Posted by timothybeasley
You could spend your entire lifetime eliminating poverty, illness, violence, famine, and hunger if that's what you want. Has the world ever been what we wish it to be? I am one man. My charity is a spontaneous decision not a moral injunction. I will not bankrupt myself giving to others without regard to triaging need. There are many needs, obviously, but to say that money donated to MP goes only to karma burn off and should be given to charities is I think missing the point of the decision the chela made in that moment. You don't know where the money goes, but I'm sure you have an assumption. I just don't know. But the point is the incremental freeing of perspective through surrender of what once was dear.
Look Timothy, I don't see how an "incremental freeing of perspective through surrender of what once was dear" could not be had by donating the money to AIDS, cancer, hunger, etc. Why does the "master" have to benefit exclusively?
Here's a thought: maybe if chelas donated the money to a worthy cause instead of MP, Gary would experience an "incremental freeing" knowing that his chelas are caring souls helping humanity and making a difference in this world. The defeatist attitude of "has the world ever been what we wish it to be?" is sort of despicable in my opinion. It's basically saying "why bother?". How kind and loving!
One of the key's to all of that little spiel, no matter how he uses the "Age of Aquarius" as a means and method of explaining it is simply seeing the self-interest of others exploiting everyone else, by using institutions to do so.
Rocket science is not required, nor even an initiation on the MP is needed a simple statement would suffice, instead would be students, and those that are on the MP are pushed into believing that you have to shell out your $30 a month and listen to all of the other crapola that you have to buy into.
The point is that he Gary himself, and the MP as what he created, is a part of that exploiting. Oh he and others on the MP state, "its them others, not us, a 'true master' wouldn't exploit his students", well and as has been very well documented here on this thread, just because he says it, don't necessarily make it so.
Thanks for posting this video, perhaps we can get more audio or even possibly a video from someone recording some of the other rants or irrelevant ca-ca that he spouts off on would be additional grist for the mill in exposing this fraud.
Because listening to my inner guidance says smoke this guy
That talk is astoundingly stupid and transparent. People actually pay to follow this guy?
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Originally Posted by Still_Kicking
The point is that he Gary himself, and the MP as what he created, is a part of that exploiting. Oh he and others on the MP state, "its them others, not us, a 'true master' wouldn't exploit his students", well and as has been very well documented here on this thread, just because he says it, don't necessarily make it so.
Exactly, and it absolutely amazes me that chelas believe and accept this tripe. He's all, "even ME, even the MASTER is looked on suspiciously because of all the antics going on in the world". Puhleaze. Yes, "dear ones", even I, the great Gary, Godman and word made flesh, am being doubted because of what "other" cult leaders are doing this day and age.
Um, no. Cult leaders, charlatans, and snake oil salesman have all been doing the same thing forever, and Gary is just continuing the tradition. He is one of them. They are ALL trying to distinguish themselves from the other charlatans! Duh. What do you think Marshall Applewhite told his followers about people who doubted he was God incarnate? Same nonsense.
I love when he says "they did it with the swine flu before, and then they did the bird flu, and now we got the doomsday with the end of the Mayan calendar".
"They"? HELLO, that was you, dips***. Here again, it's another tactic to separate himself from doomsday cults because he knows his 2006 bird flu predictions backfired and made him look like an idiot. He lost followers and money. A different approach was critical this time with 2012, especially with the internet all over his ass now (ie. forums like City-Data).
Age of aquarius. Like that's the reason people are against him. How about that he's a disgusting fraud?
I'm on the "cusp" of regurgitating listening to him. Keep posting this stuff, it's outstanding material.
Last edited by Violet11; 08-19-2010 at 09:31 AM..
Reason: re-word for clarification
Adi Da Samraj has a video entitled: Adi Da Samraj: "I Will Do Everything" shown here.
The struggle is something everyone else that I know has felt. It's plainly obvious to me. Perhaps a refresher on the Bhagavad Gita might help.
A good one Tim. Your posted reference video demonstrates something! That you must be "seeing" through tainted glasses? It is blatantly obvious to me that this Adi Da is someone to stay well clear of, with no inkling of needing to "struggle" what-so-ever. Maybe that can only come after the experience of making a grave mistake and being self-humbling enough to acknowlege it? He actually states what he wants of you (as a devotee) amidst the profound crap he exudes. Sure, he talks very confidently, like a professional orator, giving the impression that he knows what he is talking about. But a person has to have enough "confidence", enough self-esteem, in themselves to be able to listen to their own "inner voice" and "know" what is true amidst the ordained bull****. Why am I not at all surprised that people have ended up becoming this guy's sex slaves?
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Originally Posted by SpinSpun1
look what I found... YouTube Video titled: Sri Gary Olsen on Cult Leaders, 2012 and the Age of Aquarius
Good example SpinSpun. This is a "Seekers", or potential newcomers, presentation; not the same as a "Members" (for MP chelas) meeting. Forget the references to astrology and the like; an astrologer knows what Gary is on about there. For the most part I find what he says has a believability factor to it that many people would agree with: e.g. that one should look within and not outside themselves etc. He even incriminates himself with his attack on cult leaders. The listening seeker here does not know that MasterPath is technically regarded a cult. Gary's mention of this, as a confidence trick, goes further to distancing any would be seeker that it may have anything to do with being a cult. It is not until a seeker has signed up for membership and committed to a regime of paying dues that they begin systematically discover that their “Inner Master” is not their own “inner voice”, but garji, or Gary himself! Truths that are self-evident are presented to the “follower” to set their direction on the path at the beginning of their membership. These are gradually superseded with supposed truths that lead the follower to where their leader wants them to go. The mistake the chela makes is: the premise that what has been said before was truth, then whatever follows must also be truth by default, without so much as an “inspection” or second thought. Before a chela knows it, a whole section of their beliefs have been systematically transformed, into a structure will serve their leader, above all else.
When I was in Scientology I was told I would experience barriers while working through the material on course. That these barriers will make me feel quite uncomfortable and want to stop, not continue, want to leave. That this was normal and happens to everyone in Scientology. That the only way to go, the way to redeem my true self, was to confront these barriers, endure through all my discomfort, and pass through them to the other side. That “the only way out, is the way through”. It was not until later, until after I had left Scientology, that I realized what those barriers of impending discomfort indeed were. It was my own “inner voice”, the true Inner Master, frantically trying to tell me not to go there. That there was something overpowering me and seriously wrong! Can you, as a chela, contemplate any similar experience on your own path? I can only add: Be aware and listen to your own “inner voice”. Not anyone else no matter who they are or how convincing they may be! ! For your “inner voice” is always there and can guide you in your moments of greatest need, if you would only stop and look!
“Scientology accepts to free. That which one cannot accept chains one. A ruler’s motto could be ‘make them resist’ and his people would become enslaved. Resistance and restraint are the barbed wire of this concentration camp. Accept the barbed wire and there is no camp.” - L. Ron Hubbard (creator of Scientology)
Excellent analysis and breakdown of how the MP and Scientology works to screw up a person's thinking that is never even considered.
Buy-into the MP is a complete short-circuit of your true inner self, one's own true inner voice being attacked by the lies and outright deception by omission, and then commission that once indoctrinated as a chela, you are as they say, screwed and tattooed.
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He wants to be a rock star, inherit the earth and repopulate it, and apparently has connections to alien races or something like that. 
??), and then goes on to list all the celebs he’d “like to meet”. It’s hysterical:
You are kidding aren't you?
look what I found...
“Scientology accepts to free. That which one cannot accept chains one. A ruler’s motto could be ‘make them resist’ and his people would become enslaved. Resistance and restraint are the barbed wire of this concentration camp. Accept the barbed wire and there is no camp.” - L. Ron Hubbard (creator of Scientology)