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I have been looking at various sites and photos and while some of them do indeed look like wheels I'm very far from being convinced that they prove anything other than something happened at that site in antiquety (maybe). Untill proper archeological digs (or the aquatic equivalent) are done this can't be taken as proof of exodus and by extension the bible. That is just stretching the discovery (assuming there was one) way out of proportion. Has any kind of dating, besides someone saying they look like they come from that time, been done? You have to first remove all doubt before making the claims you are making. With all due respect Campbell34 I know that you dearly wish for it to be a definitive find but I don't think it has been shown to be that yet. I think the question you need to ask yourself is how many other possibilities are there as to how those coral structures and other things came to be there? Those possibilities are too numerous to mention so I think you need to put this one into the unproven basket for the meantime.
First of all the animals in question did not have to be adults when taken onboard, and if you can believe that there is a ship over 450 feet long resting at an altitude of 15,500 feet above sea level, some how I would not have a problem believeing anything else. LOL
Small animals eat too Campbell. This is once again the same problem as the water(ie you can't count).
There is not enough water on earth to accommodate your claims
There is not enough space on the ark to accommodate all the animals+food, even if they were all children.
You are trying to make us believe the unbelievable but I'm afraid that you believing in your claims isn't enough. Dr N's myth is full of miracles and impossible claims so why try to convince us otherwise?
The problem with the story is not so much the water but the fact that it took considerable time for the waters to subside IIRC more or less a year. So even after landing, the food supply would not be there for the animals and the eight people.
The scaled model they built for the Evan almighty film was primarily of steel and if you look at the extras on the DVD, the guy clearly states that wood alone would not do it.
My problem is marsupials, penguins, polar bears and many other species that were not in the ME and would not survive even IF they got there somehow.
The biggest problem is that by virtue of Noah being the forefather of the Jewish nation, there should be a whole heap more of them than exists today or at least, there should be no black people or Asians or Chinese.
History of China predates this so called flood meaning it could NOT have been global.
Even with animals alone, looking at their natural lifespans and their position in the food chain, it is unlikely that a pair could repopulate.
These are all the obvious questions that are asked w/o any plausible explanation - it is always deferred to well God could have re-created them which then brings one full circle to the why not recall and start all over from scratch?
Even the lineage of Jesus goes through Noah back to Adam yet in Jesus' time where did the Romans suddenly come from? There was an Ethiopian mentioned in Acts so one would assume he was black.
Paul is prevented in going to the East in his ministry so where did them folk come from? Yet the 3 "wise men/kings" came from the east and suggests they were from India.
I have been looking at various sites and photos and while some of them do indeed look like wheels I'm very far from being convinced that they prove anything other than something happened at that site in antiquety. Untill proper archeological digs (or the aquatic equivalent) are done this can't be taken as proof of exodus and by extension the bible. That is just stretching the discovery (assuming there was one) way out of proportion. Has any kind of dating, besides someone saying they look like they come from that time, been done? You have to first remove all doubt before making the claims you are making. With all due respect Campbell34 I know that you dearly wish for it to be a definitive find but I don't think it has been shown to be that yet. I think the question you need to ask yourself is how many other possibilities are there as to how those coral structures and other things came to be there? Those possibilities are too numerous to mention so I think you need to put this one into the unproven basket for the meantime.
Well you have two giant 18 foot red granit columns on opposing shores marking the spot with these words chisled in them. Mizraim(Egypt) Solomon, Death, Pharaoh, Moses, Yahweh. It would of taken a small army to put them there. And the site has been gone over by another expedition which was headed up by Dr. Lennart Moller, who is a scientist in the area of medical and molecular biology. Yet he and others did further investigations of that site. They discovered the bones of humans and horses, and of chariot parts that were scattered over a distance of 8 miles across the sea bottom. There is also extra Biblical writings that were chisled in stone that confirmed the Biblical account. Dr. Moller has published a book that contains some 790 colour pictures of their findings, so it is not like this site has not be investigated. And Dr. Moller has confirmed the same things that Mr. Wyatt has already stated.
And also more conformation of this site, was the discovery of the real Mt. Sinia. According to the story in the Bible, shortly after the crossing, the children of Israel went to Mt. Sinia where Moses received the ten commandments. Not far from the Red sea crossing site they discovered the mountain. And they knew it was the mountain because the Bible gave a number of land marks that would identify it. They discovered the 60 foot split rock of Horeb. That was the rock Moses struck, and water gushed out of it so the children of Israel would not die of thirst. They discovered the large man made altar at the base of Mt. Sinia where the Golden calf was worshipped. They discovered the three thousand graves of those who were killed for worshipping the calf. They discovered the boundry markers that the Bible spoke of that were placed around the mountain to keep the people back. They also discovered the altar of 12 Pillars.
The Bibe continues to be proven from historical discovery. Just in recent times the existance of King David and Israels two Kingdomes has been proven. The historical accounts in the Bible have never been proven to be false, just the oppsite. With every new discovery, we find that the stories in the Bible are true. My question to you would be, why must we look for some other possibility, when the Biblical accounts from historical discovery has always been proven true, even if it is the least believed?
Small animals eat too Campbell. This is once again the same problem as the water(ie you can't count).
There is not enough water on earth to accommodate your claims
There is not enough space on the ark to accommodate all the animals+food, even if they were all children.
You are trying to make us believe the unbelievable but I'm afraid that you believing in your claims isn't enough. Dr N's myth is full of miracles and impossible claims so why try to convince us otherwise?
Well I believe the site below can do a better job when it comes to explaining the area of the ark, and it ability to house two of each kind of animal. It goes into much detail, and it states that the volume area of the ark would be about the area of 569 modern railroad stock cars. As far as the flood, the Bible indicates that it was not just rain that flood the earth, but it states the fountains of the earth were opened. It appears to many that the earths crust actually collapsed. However, heres the link for the area of the ark.
Main article: Biblical Mount Sinai
According to Bedouin tradition, this is the mountain where God gave laws to the Israelites. However, the earliest Christian traditions place this event at the nearby Mount Serbal, and a monastery was founded at its base in the 4th century; it was only in the 6th century that the monastery moved to the foot of Mount Catherine, following the guidance of Josephus's earlier claim that Sinai was the highest mountain in the area. Jebel Musa, which is adjacent to Mount Catherine, was only equated with Sinai, by Christians, after the 15th century. Also, for Muslims, there is a chapter named after this mountain in the Quran, entitled, Surah-Tin; surah/chapter 95. In which God promises by the fig, the olive, by the Mount Sinai and the city of Makkah. Orthodoxies settled down on this mountain in the III century, Georgians moved in Sinai in VI century, although Georgian colony was formed in the IX century. Georgians erected their own temples in this area. The construction of one of the temples was connected with the name of David The Builder, who contributed to erecting of temples not only in Georgia but abroad too. The construction of the temple on Sinai Mountain was not only religious step; furthermore it had a great political and cultural meaning. Georgian monks, living there were deeply connected with motherland. The temple had it`s own plots in Kartli. Part of the Georgian manuscripts of Sinai still remain there but some of them are kept in Tbilisi, St. Petersburg, Prague, New York, Paris and in private collections.
Many modern biblical scholars now believe that the Israelites would have crossed the Sinai peninsula in a straight line, rather than detouring to the southern tip (assuming that they did not cross the eastern branch of the Red Sea/Reed Sea in boats or on a sandbar), and therefore look for Mount Sinai elsewhere.
The Song of Deborah, which textual scholars consider to be one of the oldest parts of the bible, suggests that Yahweh dwelt at Mount Seir, so many scholars favour a location in Nabatea (modern Arabia). Alternatively, the biblical descriptions of Sinai can be interpreted as describing a volcano, and so a small number of scholars have considered equating Sinai with locations in north western Saudi Arabia; there are no volcanoes in the Sinai Peninsula;
The Biblical Mount Sinai is an ambiguously located mountain at which the Hebrew Bible states that the Ten Commandments were given to Moses by God.[1] In certain biblical passages these events are described as having transpired at Horeb. Sinai and Horeb are generally considered to refer to the same place although there is a small body of opinion that they refer to different locations[2].
Passages earlier in the narrative text than the Israelite encounter with Sinai indicate that the ground of the mountain was considered holy,[3] but according to the rule of Ein mukdam u'meuchar baTorah (אין מוקדם ומאוחר בתורה) -- "[There is] not 'earlier' and 'later' in [the] Torah," that is, the Torah is not authored in a chronological fashion, classical biblical commentators regard this as insignificant.[4] Some modern day scholars, however, who do not recognize the authority of the Oral Law, explain it as having been a sacred place dedicated to one of the Semitic deities, long before the Israelites had ever encountered it.[5] Some modern biblical scholars regard these laws to have originated in different time periods from one another, with the later ones mainly being the result of natural evolution over the centuries of the earlier ones, rather than all originating from a single moment in time.[6][2]
In Classical rabbinical literature, Mount Sinai became synonymous with holiness;[7] indeed, it was said that when the Messiah arrives, God will bring Sinai together with Mount Carmel and Mount Tabor, rebuild the Temple upon the combined mountain, and the peaks would sing a chorus of praise to God.[8] According to early aggadic midrash, Tabor and Carmel had previously been jealous of Sinai having been chosen as the place that the laws were delivered, but were told by God that they had not been chosen because only Sinai had not had idols placed upon it[5]; according to the Pirke De-Rabbi Eliezer, God had chosen Sinai after discovering that it was the lowest mountain.[9]
Well you have two giant 18 foot red granit columns on opposing shores marking the spot with these words chisled in them. Mizraim(Egypt) Solomon, Death, Pharaoh, Moses, Yahweh. It would of taken a small army to put them there. And the site has been gone over by another expedition which was headed up by Dr. Lennart Moller, who is a scientist in the area of medical and molecular biology. Yet he and others did further investigations of that site. They discovered the bones of humans and horses, and of chariot parts that were scattered over a distance of 8 miles across the sea bottom. There is also extra Biblical writings that were chisled in stone that confirmed the Biblical account. Dr. Moller has published a book that contains some 790 colour pictures of their findings, so it is not like this site has not be investigated. And Dr. Moller has confirmed the same things that Mr. Wyatt has already stated.
And also more conformation of this site, was the discovery of the real Mt. Sinia. According to the story in the Bible, shortly after the crossing, the children of Israel went to Mt. Sinia where Moses received the ten commandments. Not far from the Red sea crossing site they discovered the mountain. And they knew it was the mountain because the Bible gave a number of land marks that would identify it. They discovered the 60 foot split rock of Horeb. That was the rock Moses struck, and water gushed out of it so the children of Israel would not die of thirst. They discovered the large man made altar at the base of Mt. Sinia where the Golden calf was worshipped. They discovered the three thousand graves of those who were killed for worshipping the calf. They discovered the boundry markers that the Bible spoke of that were placed around the mountain to keep the people back. They also discovered the altar of 12 Pillars.
The Bibe continues to be proven from historical discovery. Just in recent times the existance of King David and Israels two Kingdomes has been proven. The historical accounts in the Bible have never been proven to be false, just the oppsite. With every new discovery, we find that the stories in the Bible are true. My question to you would be, why must we look for some other possibility, when the Biblical accounts from historical discovery has always been proven true, even if it is the least believed?
You are right Campbell34, this is the sight of the red sea crossing. Those are chariot wheels not just coral formations. The sight is in line with Mt. Jezeel el Lawz or Mt. Sinai. Not only is their pictures of Cows inscribed on the face of the rock at the bottom of the mountain, there is traces of gold on the rock. Remember Moses ground the golden calf up and strew it on the water to make the people drink it. Also the top of the Mountain is covered in black rock, where the Lord decended and burnt the top of the mountain. There are the remains of twelve pillars there, there is places where pools formed, Alters were set up, etc. The Mountain and the surrounding area has been fenced off because the government does not want people to go there or to know the truth. I think the pillars on the one side of the crossing was also removed by the millitary and taken away.
The problem with the story is not so much the water but the fact that it took considerable time for the waters to subside IIRC more or less a year. So even after landing, the food supply would not be there for the animals and the eight people.
The scaled model they built for the Evan almighty film was primarily of steel and if you look at the extras on the DVD, the guy clearly states that wood alone would not do it.
My problem is marsupials, penguins, polar bears and many other species that were not in the ME and would not survive even IF they got there somehow.
The biggest problem is that by virtue of Noah being the forefather of the Jewish nation, there should be a whole heap more of them than exists today or at least, there should be no black people or Asians or Chinese.
History of China predates this so called flood meaning it could NOT have been global.
Even with animals alone, looking at their natural lifespans and their position in the food chain, it is unlikely that a pair could repopulate.
These are all the obvious questions that are asked w/o any plausible explanation - it is always deferred to well God could have re-created them which then brings one full circle to the why not recall and start all over from scratch?
Even the lineage of Jesus goes through Noah back to Adam yet in Jesus' time where did the Romans suddenly come from? There was an Ethiopian mentioned in Acts so one would assume he was black.
Paul is prevented in going to the East in his ministry so where did them folk come from? Yet the 3 "wise men/kings" came from the east and suggests they were from India.
Animals came from the middle east (from the mountain ranges of Ararat) and populated the world. So, the Polar Bear is just a bear and came from Noah's Ark and migrated to where we find them today. Noah did not have to go to the artic to get them because they were not in the artic at the time of Noah.
Noah is not the father of the Jewish nation only but of all the nations of the world. That includes blacks, whites, hispanics, etc. The Jewish nation comes out of Eber the grandson of Noah, hence the name (h)ebrews. The nations of Africa and Egypt come from Ham the son of Noah. If you want to know detail look here, Bill Copper did a good job at recording who is decended from who.
Well I believe the site below can do a better job when it comes to explaining the area of the ark, and it ability to house two of each kind of animal. It goes into much detail, and it states that the volume area of the ark would be about the area of 569 modern railroad stock cars. As far as the flood, the Bible indicates that it was not just rain that flood the earth, but it states the fountains of the earth were opened. It appears to many that the earths crust actually collapsed. However, heres the link for the area of the ark.
Animals came from the middle east (from the mountain ranges of Ararat) and populated the world. So, the Polar Bear is just a bear and came from Noah's Ark and migrated to where we find them today. Noah did not have to go to the artic to get them because they were not in the artic at the time of Noah.
In Noah's time, they probably did not know of the arctic and Antarctic's existence - likely they all thought the earth was flat and only that scenario would support the water disappearing viz flowing off the edge of the planet. That said you then subscribe to evolution for the polar bears as desert semi desert conditions would certainly require different fur. The polar bear differs greatly to the Grizzly and Panda bears.
Fresh/salt water fish are not compatible to alternate water environments.
Quote:
Noah is not the father of the Jewish nation only but of all the nations of the world. That includes blacks, whites, hispanics, etc. The Jewish nation comes out of Eber the grandson of Noah, hence the name (h)ebrews. The nations of Africa and Egypt come from Ham the son of Noah. If you want to know detail look here, Bill Copper did a good job at recording who is decended from who.
That link is not really objective now is it?
But you did not address the Chinese history that predates the flood myth.
There are also other cultures (not sure who) that also have more ancient dated history
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