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Sorry, I was trying to start a new thread and put it in the wrong spot.
Stupid is as stupid does. I wish there was a way to completely remove a post if you made a mistake instead of having it remain as a testimony to your stupidity!
Er, I'm not making any argument, you know. I realize that there's good stuff in the bible too. But you did ask
so what kind of answer did you expect?
I'm asking to see who in the scriptures, apart from Abraham, has ever been tested by God with a command to kill his child -- and then actually followed through with it. Jepthah was mentioned, but it was him bargaining with God and not at God's command.
Several levitical laws are cited that give the death punishment for certain acts of 'spiritual treason' and other violations. After that, I think we've exhausted the list.
I just don't get the notion that God has some blood-lust for killing innocent babies as some profess.
I'm asking to see who in the scriptures, apart from Abraham, has ever been tested by God with a command to kill his child -- and then actually followed through with it. Jepthah was mentioned, but it was him bargaining with God and not at God's command.
Several levitical laws are cited that give the death punishment for certain acts of 'spiritual treason' and other violations. After that, I think we've exhausted the list.
I just don't get the notion that God has some blood-lust for killing innocent babies as some profess.
Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones.
Deuteronomy 2:34 utterly destroyed the men and the women and the little ones.
Deuteronomy 28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters.
I Samuel 15:3 slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.
2 Kings 8:12 dash their children, and rip up their women with child.
2 Kings 15:16 all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.
Isaiah 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled and their wives ravished.
Isaiah 13:18 They shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
Lamentations 2:20 Shall the women eat their fruit, and children.
Ezekiel 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children.
Hosea 9:14 give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
Hosea 13:16 their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
I'm asking to see who in the scriptures, apart from Abraham, has ever been tested by God with a command to kill his child -- and then actually followed through with it. Jepthah was mentioned, but it was him bargaining with God and not at God's command.
Several levitical laws are cited that give the death punishment for certain acts of 'spiritual treason' and other violations. After that, I think we've exhausted the list.
I just don't get the notion that God has some blood-lust for killing innocent babies as some profess.
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "
2 Kings 2:23-24
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
I Kings 16:34
In Ahab's time, Hiel of Bethel rebuilt Jericho. He laid its foundations at the cost of his firstborn son Abiram, and he set up its gates at the cost of his youngest son Segub, in accordance with the word of the LORD spoken by Joshua son of Nun.
Isaiah 13:16
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.
Jeremiah 11:22
therefore this is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine.
Jeremiah 19:9
I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives.'
I'm asking to see who in the scriptures, apart from Abraham, has ever been tested by God with a command to kill his child -- and then actually followed through with it. Jepthah was mentioned, but it was him bargaining with God and not at God's command.
Appart from the ones you just listed, there's two examples I gave earlier:
Quote:
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.
(Exodus 22:29)
[this is a bit unclear, but it does sound like human sacrifice, especially since it's lumped with the offering of fruits and liquors.]
In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son Segub, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Joshua the son of Nun.
(Kings 16:34)
[Apparently God asked Hiel to sacrifice two of his sons when building Jericho.]
Another interpretation would mean 'dedicate your firstborn son' - just as Hannah gave her son Samuel to the High Priest to be raised in service to God. Samuel did not die, but he was the firstborn son given to God.
Hiel may have laid those foundations in plots of land that belonged to his sons Abiram and Segub...and not in their graves or dead bodies.
There's a preponderance of evidence that Israel fought and slaughtered its way through Canaan to occupy that region. None of those commands were for a father to kill his own child, but those of the enemy. I'll concede the 33 million statistic from the web site - who has time to take that kind of census anyway?
Are there any other instances - just like Abraham - where a parent is told to murder their own child?
Another interpretation would mean 'dedicate your firstborn son' - just as Hannah gave her son Samuel to the High Priest to be raised in service to God. Samuel did not die, but he was the firstborn son given to God.
Probably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
Hiel may have laid those foundations in plots of land that belonged to his sons Abiram and Segub...and not in their graves or dead bodies.
Actually, it appears to have been the fulfilment of a curse that Joshua placed upon Jericho (Joshua 6:26). So the sons were indeed killed when the city was constructed, though arguably it's not like the father sacrificed his sons (was Hiel aware of the curse?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
There's a preponderance of evidence that Israel fought and slaughtered its way through Canaan to occupy that region. None of those commands were for a father to kill his own child, but those of the enemy.
I agree, this does not answer your specific query, though it might help you with
Quote:
Originally Posted by BST
I just don't get the notion that God has some blood-lust for killing innocent babies as some profess
With everything else deducted, it seems that Abraham was a unique person with a unique challenge. IMO anyone who thinks they'd do the same as he did "mis-overestimates" himself...to borrow a phrase from GWB.
As for the death of innocents...God's wrath or natural selection? Or simply the existence of evil that will always wage war?
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